Segregation Between Deaf Kids at Deaf and Public Schools
Several months ago while I was researching the deaf schools facing budget cuts and planned school closings, an alumnus alerted me of a Deaf school where the deaf kids in an oral program are segregated from the Deaf students using ASL in the same building. These groups reportedly are not allowed to socialize or even speak to each other.
Two weeks ago, a friend shared with me how a mother of a C.I. student instructed her oral deaf child’s IEP team that this child isn’t permitted to have any access to the ASL-using Deaf students in the public school. This IEP is enforced by the public school staff.
Supreme Court had determined segregated schools based on skin color unconstitutional. One of the factors leading to this decision was based on a study indicating the different treatment detrimental to the self esteem of these African American children, with the majority thinking the Caucasians superior to them.
In the public schools, the hearing students are not segregated from each other due to fluency of different languages other than English. Nor are they forbidden to have any interactions with each other.
Why are the ASL-using Deaf and oral deaf students subjected to this enforced segregation? What messages do this practice send to these students? That the Deaf students using ASL are ‘contagious’, therefore the oral deaf students must be ‘protected’ from these students?
Is this a good example of audiolinguicism, a form of discrimination based on one’s ability to hear and the use of a language? This word hasn’t been coined formally, but both Deaf Pundit and I think this is a satisficatory term for dual discrimination, audism and linguicism.
Should segregation with no socialization between these students , based on hearing status and language be practiced in public schools funded by taxpayers? Is this practice legal?
Several months ago while I was researching the deaf schools facing budget cuts and planned school closings, an alumnus alerted me of a Deaf school where the deaf kids in an oral program are segregated from the Deaf students using ASL in the same building. These groups reportedly are not allowed to socialize or even speak to each other.
Two weeks ago, a friend shared with me how a mother of a C.I. student instructed her oral deaf child’s IEP team that this child isn’t permitted to have any access to the ASL-using Deaf students in the public school. This IEP is enforced by the public school staff.
Supreme Court had determined segregated schools based on skin color unconstitutional. One of the factors leading to this decision was based on a study indicating the different treatment detrimental to the self esteem of these African American children, with the majority thinking the Caucasians superior to them.
In the public schools, the hearing students are not segregated from each other due to fluency of different languages other than English. Nor are they forbidden to have any interactions with each other.
Why are the ASL-using Deaf and oral deaf students subjected to this enforced segregation? What messages do this practice send to these students? That the Deaf students using ASL are ‘contagious’, therefore the oral deaf students must be ‘protected’ from these students?
Is this a good example of audiolinguicism, a form of discrimination based on one’s ability to hear and the use of a language? This word hasn’t been coined formally, but both Deaf Pundit and I think this is a satisficatory term for dual discrimination, audism and linguicism.
Should segregation with no socialization between these students , based on hearing status and language be practiced in public schools funded by taxpayers? Is this practice legal?
April 20th, 2009 at 9:46 am
How can I be sure that you’re not making things up out of whole cloth? “A friend told me this, A friend told me that….” Why should we all be riled up over hearsay and someone’s preconceived notions about segregation and what it actually entails?
But in any case, I think I have an inkling as to what you are referring to…, but before I comment any further, you’re referring to Maryland School for the Deaf’s pilot oral education program, correct?
April 20th, 2009 at 9:57 am
It shouldn’t be legal. Not only for the implied “lesser status” of ASL-using Deaf people, but also for the enforcement of language deprivation in those children who do not achieve any significant degree of language acquisition due to oralist techniques (which constitutes cognitive abuse, in my mind).
April 20th, 2009 at 10:13 am
That was what Alexander Graham Bell desired, to separate deaf children from each other so that they not learn sign language or even later on, marry each other.
It is criminal in that the children learn to disrespect the other group, learn a skewed view of themselves, may question themselves as compared to hearing children, and contributes to the oral-signer divide later on.
Let’s not split hairs and invent even more new words. This is pure audism. A form of hate that divides people and families. It shouldn’t be allowed and public education should be focused on educating the school and parents why this is so.
With a comprehensive approach to language in schools, this division is also unnecessary.
April 20th, 2009 at 11:32 am
What the hell? I’m very much against segregation. It is not very good since that may lead to “audism” when C.I. child becomes an adult and would continue looking down on Deaf people and Deaf Community if the parents continue preaching their C.I. children not to socialize with ASL Deaf people. Also, that could be a new set of problems for parents when C.I. children decide to go on the path of ASL and get involved in Deaf Community. I’ve been hearing a few stories with that kind of situation from friends of mine who had encountered with a few of C.I. adults. According to my friend, C.I. adult is not allowed to socialize with ASL and Deaf Community. Also, she’d be disowned if she marries a Deaf man hence her parents told her to date ONLY hearing men. She is over 21 years old! She has been sneaking to meet ASL friends or any social events that have ASL deaf people hang around. It is not easy for her. My heart goes to her but I’m disappointed that she hasn’t yet stand up to her parents since she’s already an adult. Yes, she still lives with her parents, oy! Of course, she was segregated from Deaf program that had ASL in her public school upon her parents’ request.
Insane Misha
April 20th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
That is not really surprise at all!
All the public schools ought to hold the symbol of real democracy by living, playing, reading and writing together for the creation of true pluralistic society, not the mono society with various social and linguistic cliques or subgroups.
We must condemn this kind of practice among audistic parents of deaf kids with CI.
That is definitely a violation of community-building and concept of diverse society.
Audistic parent of deaf babies and youngsters must be exposed for their sadistic and undemocratic upbringings of their offsprings.
The very same parents KNOW that their deaf offsprings ended up in the real Deaf World with the use of ASL because of less personal frustration than using the oral methods.
That would be seen as a simple chaotic concept of parents’ objection of seeing their own kids interact with different race and ethnicity outside their own comfort world.
How sad of many parents of deaf children treat their own deaf offsprings as some kind of property or social status.
RLM
April 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
It’d be interesting to see how the law applies to IEP’s.
Seems that the hearing parents of that CI child figured out a work-around the ASL “contagion”, probably by citing their child’s AVT therapist’s or doctor’s recommendations, without incurring legal issues. Curious situation.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Hearsay? I guess you don’t know me well if you think I would make up stories to ‘rile’ people up. These people who confided to me are credible people I have known for decades and not mere acquaintances or strangers. In fact, these two incidents weren’t the only ones I know. I also did some investigation.
At this moment, I do not see the need to identify the schools as they are not relevant. The ethical and civil rights questions I raised are more relevant as I find this trend troublesome.
I understand some parents’ desire for their children to pursue oracy without any exposure to ASL. As of now, the parents do have the right to dictate their wishes to the IEP team. But what if this practice sets up mandatory conditions which I think may violate the segregation laws in the public schools? Where do we draw the line between the parental wishes for children to pursue pure oracy and the violations of state laws? Apparently, since this segregation is already being practiced under the same buildings , disabled students are “exempt” from state laws forbidding segregation. If so, this raises troubling questions why the disabled students are not covered by the laws protecting abled students. I do see the need for separate classrooms, especially with the use of self contained classrooms due to disabilities or/and educational needs, but the socialization of students with certain peers being forbidden due to their disability and language use raises my eyebrows.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
It is sad that we live in an ideology that men dominates over women like in the Middle East.
Oops, I meant that it is sad that we live in an ideology that “hearing” dominates over “Deaf” in this country.
Whatever “hearing” does, it seems the right thing to do. But for the Deaf culture, they really have no rights to speak up…too insignificant to be heard.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
MZ,
I very strongly object to your sixth paragraph wherein you say you and Deaf Pundit have coined a term — audiolinguicism”. Please re-read
Dianrez’s comnment vide supra. Because of your term, it impplies that you and Deaf Pundit are apologists of Alexander Graham Bell who urged to segregrate oralists from signers. I urge you to re-read Dianrez’s concise comnment about Bell’s approach that evolved to a form of hate.
If parents desire pure oracy for their children,
why can they not enterd them to hearing schools and hearing universities instead of deaf schools and deaf universities.
It looks like aother Selma.
I still cannot believe my eyes when I read your
sixth paragraphy.
Assez est assez!
Jean Boutcher
April 20th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Readers:
Please accept my apologies for a number of typos
in my comment (vid. supra). I am still not used to typing a new WIRELESS LASER keyboard.
Merci beaucoup.
JB
April 20th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Jean,
How are we apologists of AG Bell when we are trying to create a more precise definition of the discrimination against the ASL Deaf? We are discriminated TWICE – for our deafness and for our language.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Responding to Boutcher, the Butcher.
Still using pretentious French words to talk down on some people? Nicky picky aren’t you? Eh?
Everytime, MZ writes something, you criticise her. That’s what you usually do. Picky nicky!
Rouler les yeux! @@
April 20th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I don’t agree with this, either. I think it creates more separation and “holier than thou” attitudes. This happened when we started separating Deaf kids from hard of hearing kids and telling the hard of hearing kids that they were lucky that they could hear a little, at least.
This segregation (oral and ASL students) has been happening in Utah for quite some time now. I’ve always wondered why people don’t seem to realize that this only hurts the students.
RLM has the right idea…throw everyone in the mix and let them learn to get along. Wouldn’t that be teh best way?
April 20th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Jean I do not appreciate you labeling Deaf Pundit and me apologists. You were out of line here.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
I was sort of hoping you would ID the situation or school more specifically, also. My reasons: I’ve heard arguments that public school resources should not go towards supporting a deaf child’s attendance at a school for the deaf (as our local school does for my child) because that is, in effect, segregation. The alternative would obviously decimate the school for the deaf, removing most of its support and place most deaf children in either a mainstreamed environment with accommodation (among hearing kids) or in special non-auditory classes for the deaf within the walls of the public school.
So, from my perspective, I DO want my child “segregated” from the typical public school educational environment and provided with a curriculum tailored to providing her the best education possible without the obstacles her deafness might create in a typical hearing classroom. I don’t care if she gets off first or last on that bus, as long as it’s getting her to teachers that really know how to teach a deaf child.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Mishka Zena and Deaf Pundit,
I was hoping that you would read BETWEEN
I was not attacking you.
I was attacking the idea of
coining a term — audiolinguicism.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Mishka Zena and Deaf Pundit,
I was hoping that you would have read
BETWEEN THE LINES.
I was not attacking you.
I was attacking the idea of
coining a term — audiolinguicism.
Again, please apologise for the unfhinished
mesage above, but I an not used to my
new keyboard.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Making implications that we are apologists is still considered as name calling and an attack.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Jean – Whatever.
Li Li’s Mom,
The argument about deaf schools being “segregated” is countered by LRE – Least Restrictive Environment. The kid has to get an education in the least restrictive environment, and that is NOT always in the public schools.
However, what the mother is doing with her oral child, is totally different. She cannot argue LRE in this case. I wish I had more information on what the mother is doing… because this raises the constitutional question of freedom of association for one.
Secondly, like someone told me: Parents, like everyone else, have the right to be wrong, unless it causes physical damage or infringes on another’s rights.
And it sounds like the mother could be infringing on the other deaf children’s rights. If she is, and the schools are stupid enough to enforce her idiotic request, lawsuits could be flying all over the place!
April 20th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
I believe the school actually exists in that it separates the deaf children into oral/aural and signing classes. In a previous blog on Deafread there was mention of including both in a Scout troop, and when a parent objected, permission for hosting the troop was withdrawn by the principal of the school.
While I can see why a parent that has worked hard to keep their child out of the ASL educational system would do this, it would be inappropriate to use the public schools for this.
Such parents should send their child to a private school, even out of town, as many hearing parents do to send their kids to an exclusive school.
MZ and Deaf Pundit have it right on. This fight doesn’t belong on public property.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Li Li’s mom, segregation in the Deaf school is different as it is the lease restrictive environment for the Deaf kids. What I’m referring is to the actual segregation between the deaf kids based on their language skills outside the classrooms in the same building. Understandably segregation in the classrooms may be necessary for educational and linguistic purposes. However, these kids are forbidden to fraternize with each other outside of the classrooms in an attempt to shield the oral deaf kids from exposure to ASL. I hope that helps clarify the crux of the post? Please let me know.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Readers, do you know something? When I shared with my hearing friends with no ties to Deaf Community about the oral deaf students and Deaf students being forbidden to socialize with each other, they all were appalled as they have never heard of anything like this. This well kept secret practice in the Deaf education system isn’t known to the public. I think it’s time to share this dirty secret with the public.
Schools are not only a place to learn but also to foster the building of social skills.
It’s tragic that this segregation between the deaf kids still persists to this day.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I used to work at a state school for the deaf that did this. The CI students were in one wing, the signing students were in the other wing, and they were never allowed to see each other. Half the staff didn’t know sign, the CI students would walk across the street to the regular school for lunch, and teachers had to coordinate schedules so that their students wouldn’t pass each other in the hallways!
April 21st, 2009 at 5:13 am
Clarification- deaf schools, under the IDEA law, are considered the most restrictive environment for deaf children. Public schools are considered the least restrictive environment.
The deaf community and advocates of deaf schools feels that it is the opposite- the deaf schools are the least restrictive environment for deaf children.
Unfortunately, the IDEA law does not protect a deaf child’s right to attend deaf schools and to interact with other deaf children.
April 21st, 2009 at 5:17 am
MZ, I think that’s a good idea. However, from my experience, not very many are willing to come forward. They prefer to stay anonymous and not risk retaliation or losing their job for reporting this.
The only way this can be stopped is if people come forward publicly, with places, names, and dates. I hope they do… because this is outrageous. And any competent attorney would, imho, LOVE to take this case on, if those individuals are retaliated against.
April 21st, 2009 at 5:27 am
Clarification, you are correct that IDEA views the segregated schools, i.e. state schools for the Deaf, most restrictive environment. In reality, due to the use of a visual language by almost everybody, if not all, in these schools, these schools are the least restrictive environment for the Deaf.
IDEA does protect the Deaf students’right to attend Deaf schools with the IEPs, but not many people are familiar with IEPs nor their rights under IDEA. Most parents want their Deaf kids to attend the public schools nearby. Those who want to send their kids to Deaf schools face a fight as the public school systems are more vested in saving money by retaining the Deaf students in their system. Unfortunately not many parents are aware of their rights under IDEA, so the public school systems take advantage of their ignorance.
April 21st, 2009 at 5:30 am
Deaf Pundit, I found lawyers who are interested in hearing more about this growing trend. I’ve already put one person in contact with these lawyers.
Readers, if you know of specific schools conducting these practices for a fact, please contact me at mishkazena@aol.com. Your identity will be protected. The lawyers are very much interested in learning about these cases
April 21st, 2009 at 6:14 am
MZ,
IDEA itself does NOT view deaf schools as the most restrictive environment. The public schools think it is, and they tell everyone that IDEA says that.
That’s why there’s so much confusion on LRE. IDEA is about the individual child, and what is LRE for that child, will not always be LRE for another. That’s the whole point of IDEA.
April 21st, 2009 at 6:24 am
Ahh, thanks for the clarification, DP. I didn’t realize the public school systems are behind this ‘Deaf Schools are the most restrictive’ thinking.
I know IDEA gives the parents the full options whereby in the past, the parents had limited options regarding the placements of their chidlren with disabilities.
April 21st, 2009 at 8:07 am
Actually, IDEA (or at least the regulations [interpretations of IDEA] does place deaf schools on a continuum of “restrictiveness”. LREs follow this idea, especially since it means money stays in the school districts.
Of course, parents have the right to appeal decisions made by LREs, but as you know the process isn’t easy and many parents are not made aware they have the right to appeal.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:06 am
Actually, IDEA does not say public schools are the LRE. IDEA does not say Deaf schools are the LRE, either. The IDEA is pretty open ended in that aspect–anyone that really knows the IDEA and IEP process knows that parents, teachers, and administrators decide what the LRE is.
Unfortunately, alot of parents do not know enough about this and leave the decisions to the teachers and administrators. Teachers sometimes don’t know enough themselves, and so it ultimately becomes up to the administrator.
I have had personal experience with teachers and administrators that SAID that public schools were the LRE just to convince parents to take their problematic child out of the Deaf school and send them to public school. IDEA/IEPs have become a playground for some teachers and administrators.
In addition to this, administrators often ignore linguistic needs, social needs, and emotional needs when considering the LRE. This should NOT happen–all of these needs should be addressed when determining where the LRE is. When this happens, in most cases, Deaf schools are often the obvious choice.
Last, but not least, (sorry this became so long) parents can use “direct communication” as the factor for determining the LRE. There are studies out there that show that direct communication (being able to communicate directly with your peers, teachers, administrators) is vital to a student’s education. Most mainstreamed students do not have direct communication, and thus are not in the LRE.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:12 am
Deaf Pundit is correct; the IDEA says nothing about which schools are considered the least restrictive environment (LRE). The law was intentionally left vague to allow people to determine the LRE for each child. Unfortunately, this leads to the debate over what is the LRE for each child.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:00 am
Separating ASL using Deaf children from any other deaf children,..especially from orally trained children is just plain WRONG as far as I am concerned. this is an important civil rights issue and I think that it does need to be discussed.
This is in response to “Responsr To Boutcher,”
….so if a person with hearing loss..uses words of another language,…they are being “pretentious?”
“Que faites-vous ici? Que pensez-vous? Pensez-vous cette femme ne comprend pas une autre langue?
Ne omprennez-vous pas:
Puto ergo sum?”
Errrrm! A human being is not able to “putare” without access to language and appropriate language training,..which I do believe,..should include early on,the signed languages,..the manual languages,..for all children with hearing loss of any kind.
and to make those words true in any language,..a person needs to learn a language so as to instill the idea of language in that persons head early on because a person without language is..”hardly a person at all!”
Oralism,..exclusive oral training DETRACTS from a child’s ability,..I do believe,..to learn a language at an appropriately young age.
I should know,..I worked with “oral rejects” in two Ohio mental institutions and the worst trauma given to those children and their ability to learn any language at all was the trauma that they had picked up in “oral exclusive” classrooms.
As for pretentiousness,
….”Il pleure dans mon coeur..Comme il pleur sur la ville…par terre et sur les toits!”
Struts off full of “pretense.”
April 21st, 2009 at 11:01 am
correctious of spelling error..”comprenez-vous”
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:06 am
I don’t agree with using another language to put another person down. I totally misinterpreted what “Response To Boutcher” said and I apologize to “Response” for that.
I agree 100% with the idea that it is wrong to separate signing Deaf Children from any orally trained deaf children. This action violates the Civil Rights of all of the children.
As to the French poem,
..La Chanson De La Pluie”..which I quoted..,”..it goes:
“Il pleure dans mon coeur..
Come il pleure sur la ville.
Quelle est cette langeur..
Qui penetre mon coeur?”
“It rains in my heart as it rains on the city.
What is the sadness that penetrates my heart?”
I guess what has penetrated my heart,..in an old woman like me,..is the fact that deaf children..still aren’t being given equal acess to all forms of language training. and to me,..learning a language and teaching hearing parents the reason that ANY form of language must be taught to their deaf children at an early age..is a priority.
April 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
[...] [...]
April 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
It is happening at my daughter’s school, for a very logical reason. Oral schools emphasis speaking and listening. Their end goal is mainstreaming the kids. They want the kids to interact with good language role models with age appropriate spoken language skills. You find those kids at a hearing school.
My daughter’s school is completely self contained. ASL must be used for ALL interactions on campus.
How are you going to have those schools in the same building? It doesn’t make sense. They should be seperate.
May 3rd, 2009 at 7:51 pm
i’m not going to comment on the topic because i will get to “riled up” over the matter, to say least… and i haven’t enough time for such things just now.
Mishka zena (very interesting name, and strange that i should stumble across it… it actually combines mine with my son’s), I was wondering if you would mind if i quote you for a research paper I’m writing on Deaf education. Please get back to me soon, if you wouldn’t mind. 
Thanks.
May 4th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I totally understand and I don’t blame you. I was floored when I learned about this development several months ago.
Feel free to use the quote in your research paper
What a pleasant coincidence
Mishka (with a k) is actually the name of my doberman and Zena my cat.
May 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Miss Kat’s Mom, Why were these programs placed in the same bldg? My guess would be due to a lack of available facilities elsewhere.
This issue with a particular Deaf school had been resolved. The oral program will be relocated to a nearby hearing elementary school.
July 3rd, 2010 at 7:52 pm
Segregation seemed like a way of life in the 80s for me. You’re guaranteed a better chance of educating yourself in the hearing-based classrooms but it’s like russian roulette without an interpreter.
In Wisconsin Lions Camp, they also segregated the deaf and hard of hearing kids (orally-raised) and that was no fun for me being subjected to a category.
Even in the ASL (formerly signed English) based education growing up in the deaf institution, the community is still biased among the deaf and hard of hearings. We’re still living in the same ignorance among the other form of ignorance that’s directed toward our African-American president. If it’s not in the norm, then it must be crucified.
July 5th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
“MZ and Deaf Pundit have it right on. This fight doesn’t belong on public property.”
THIS. Seperating them for the classes is one thing, but having teachers enforce who can be friends with whom?
Unfortunately, I can easily believe it. My brother – who has severe emotional problems, but no cognitive ones – was placed in the special ed class, and at lunch they were all required to sit together and he was strictly not allowed to go off and talk to his friends from other classes. He had nothing in common with his classmates either, every one of them had severe mental handicaps but no emotional problems – though to be fair to the school, I get that they just had nowhere else to PUT him. But enforcing this weird us vs. them mentality during the kids’ own time only taught him to resent everyone involved. It was a downright disaster.