Cochlear Implants Are Oppressive To Some?
I’ve been watching Carl’s vlog at DVTV ‘Hidden Agendas Behind Cochlear Implants’. http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/45321/ The room temperature there is getting hot.
A question for certain members of the Deaf Community who reject cochlear implants. Do you feel oppressed by the presence of cochlear implants? Do you feel oppressed when you see Deaf people, children, and toddlers wearing cochlear implants?
I am trying to understand what’s so evil about cochlear implants. I see it as a technological tool to help Deaf people hear, but I understand it contradicts the mores of the Deaf Culture treasuring its Deafness or Deafhood as some people prefer the term. Some Deaf people do enjoy listening while others are more content not hearing anything. In my opinion, it is all about cultural values. Some of us have the same cultural values while others don’t. I won’t say people are right or wrong for what they feel as feelings are just feelings and whether we agree with other people’s feelings or not, these feelings are valid to them. All we can do is try to understand, so maybe in a way, we can understand each other better. What I am seeing is that a lot of Deaf people feel very oppressed by each other, something I suspect many are not aware of.
So hence my question how some Deaf people feel when they encounter this device.
Please no bashing. We are dealing with a very sensitive issue here and it’s imperative that we understand each other better, whether we agree or not. After all, we all live in the same community. Peace MZ.
P.S. Please no pointing fingers or blaming at specific individuals. This is a community issue, not an individual issue. Thank you. MZ
I’ve been watching Carl’s vlog at DVTV ‘Hidden Agendas Behind Cochlear Implants’. http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/45321/ The room temperature there is getting hot.
A question for certain members of the Deaf Community who reject cochlear implants. Do you feel oppressed by the presence of cochlear implants? Do you feel oppressed when you see Deaf people, children, and toddlers wearing cochlear implants?
I am trying to understand what’s so evil about cochlear implants. I see it as a technological tool to help Deaf people hear, but I understand it contradicts the mores of the Deaf Culture treasuring its Deafness or Deafhood as some people prefer the term. Some Deaf people do enjoy listening while others are more content not hearing anything. In my opinion, it is all about cultural values. Some of us have the same cultural values while others don’t. I won’t say people are right or wrong for what they feel as feelings are just feelings and whether we agree with other people’s feelings or not, these feelings are valid to them. All we can do is try to understand, so maybe in a way, we can understand each other better. What I am seeing is that a lot of Deaf people feel very oppressed by each other, something I suspect many are not aware of.
So hence my question how some Deaf people feel when they encounter this device.
Please no bashing. We are dealing with a very sensitive issue here and it’s imperative that we understand each other better, whether we agree or not. After all, we all live in the same community. Peace MZ.
P.S. Please no pointing fingers or blaming at specific individuals. This is a community issue, not an individual issue. Thank you. MZ
April 17th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Yes, I am also perturbed by the hostility by some deaf people toward CI. As for myself, I don’t have a problem with CI and I do understand the need for deaf babies to get CI, for the development of language and cognition. I understand the parents’ view that they want to give their deaf babies opportunities. I think it is great that we have diversity in the deaf community, but it seems that the diversity is not fully understood and appreciated unless all of the deaf community become one big happy family, with ASL.
Well, I am sorry to sound like a broken record, but CIs are here to stay for now. What is important is to validate people’s views instead of to tell them they are wrong to think that way, that they were “colonized” to think that way, blame an organization, etc.
I’d rather have diversity, since it makes us to appreciate all kinds of cultures and that way we’d learn more.
In fact, if I had another child (I am too old for that now), who happened to be deaf from birth, I will choose the CI path and will request for AVT and we will use ASL at home… since I’d want my child to have the best of two worlds, more opportunities that way.
Good blog, MZ.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:55 am
Karen, I understand. What I am really interested in hearing from the Deaf people who have problems with cochlear implants. Why is it so controversial for them?
We need to hear from Deaf people with strong views against cochlear implants. If they don’t feel safe, they can use fake names to protect their confidentiality.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Karen -
If you were in my shoes, you will be singing a different tune.
Why bother to force deaf babies to hear?
It is God’s gift that the babies be deaf.
It is not a medical condition.
It is stupid hearing people who play God over our deaf lives!
Capsisce?
April 17th, 2009 at 8:07 am
*winces at Karen’s comment* Not going there… :p
MZ, I think it’s probably because the medical view of deafness is so dominant, and the Deaf Community *needs* validation and mainstream recognition of our cultural model of deafness. We have not gotten that. People are constantly refusing to accept or bother trying to understand different view points. (On both sides).
So when someone sees a CI, it’s a reminder that the medical model is very much alive and active, and it’s sweeping the cultural model under the rug.
It doesn’t help that our quality of life in general, isn’t as good as it should be. That does lead to some mental/emotional issues, so it is not surprising to me that there are some in the community who will lash out at anyone who dares to think differently than they do.
I cannot stress how important it is for a human being to feel that they are being listened to, being validated and recognized. We as a culture have not had that happen. Hence the sense of bitterness and rage.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Good question. I think it is viewed as an affront to the Deaf way of life.
With the advancements in technology today, it is a lot easier for deaf people to hear with much better discrimination. Of course, it takes a lot of work, but it’s very much doable. With that, they think that sign language is no longer needed and will eventually die away.
With the use of CIs, the deaf activists think it means more and more children will be going to oral schools and this may cause a decline in the population of deaf schools/institutions. With less students, the Deaf way of life is threatened. We’re seeing this happen in deaf schools already (Nebraska, South Dakota, etc.) Without the economic support offered by employment in these schools, where else will they go and work?
So, that is why is is viewed as a threat. So, what we are seeing nowadays are the deaf activists grasping at straws in attempts to discredit everything related to CIs and AGBell and all that.
But I wish they could open their minds a bit and accept that the CI does work and it is here to stay. Maryland School for the Deaf is doing this, but I understand that some parents are upset and now are threatening to move to Indiana, which is now considered the new sanctuary for all things Deaf.
This is a new era in Deaf education. What has worked before may not work now. New things need to be learned, and old ideas need to be jettisoned.
As for sign language and culture, it is here to stay, yes, but deaf schools may no longer be the center of Deaf culture. What’s the new center? The Internet, probably, but who knows but the uncertainty shouldn’t stop us from moving forward.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Some years ago my friend and I tried to do some research to find out how effective it was. Most places sweep the truth under the rug and came out with lies. They refused to talk about the failures. I have seen plenty of failed CI users. It is the tip of iceberg.
Why do state schools for the deaf have to pick up the CI failures?
Tell me about it!
April 17th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Yes.
For a medical reason, think about the celebrities who got the CIs such as Rush Limbaugh and Foxy Brown for a specific reason. Health Issue.
If my Dad loses his hearing for a specific reason, he would chose the CI and I will always respect his decision.
I must refrain from the controversial issues in this Deafread.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:36 am
I don’t think the commenters that we see are representative of the deaf community. Passionate people are more motivated to comment–making moderates appear non-existent. Silent moderates make up the majority of the community.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Deaf Pundit ;o)
Yup, it is all about the need to feel that we are OK, that there is no crime in being deaf, etc. So we resent at being treated differently when we do not feel any different at all.
I am sorry to say this, but it is still 90% deaf babies being born to hearing parents. Of course, the parents normally want them to grow up in their hearing culture which is “majority.”
I am not looking for dividing… I am just stating what I see it and I acknowledge the threats that some deaf people percive.
Oh well.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Like WG, I also must refrain from the deaf-related issues and I sense that there is growing hostility toward moderates, which I am just one of them
/ Have a good day.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am
good post, MZ. I too would like to hear more from deaf people who feel oppressed by CIs. For the record, I’m not one of them. I have one foot in both worlds — I have a CI, use ASL, and consider myself bilingual-bicultural. Yet, the thought of the dissolution of the Deaf Community makes me feel this sense of painful loss and overwhelming sadness that something very beautiful and unique, that I cherish so much, might be gone forever in a few generations. I understand that medical doctors and associated professionals think they’re doing a good thing by giving children and adults the opportunity to hear, however little it may be, but something else is being lost. The Deaf Community has changed so much in just 50 years or so. I know the older generation probably still mourns the loss of deaf clubs and organizations that used to be so active and spend lots of time together, but no longer do. Times are a’changin’, and I don’t always like it.
April 17th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I have to agree with #9 (Tayler). The people who except both sides of the issue don’t bother commenting.
There ends my comment. I’m going to read other comments about books and gardening!
April 17th, 2009 at 8:54 am
MZ,
Excellent posting! You couldn’t have asked for a better question. I believe this is more of a generational thing.
I don’t see us young’uns screaming against cochlear implants…You see, we grew up with it. We are very well aware that CIs does not make one hearing. Unfortunately, that’s not the view of some older people.
As for some’s beef regarding the money–it’s bullshit. Medicare/Medicaid covers everyone who is eligible, period. It’s not logical to think that putting implants in one child reduces the available funds for another person needing health care.
That simply just does not happen. If you are insured, you are covered. Simply that.
To answer CW’s statement regarding about ASL going away. You have it wrong. You just don’t get it, do you? The only reason why ASL will die off is because we the Deaf community refuses to share it. You see, ASL have the potentional to become one of the mainstream languages out there.
It is our sheer stupid thinking that by keeping it inside our own community, we’re preserving the purity and the wholeness of the language.
Why does anyone here think that English is such a universal business language? We, the native speakers, allowed it to go out and become mainstreamed. We’re not saying, “Oh if you’re not native, you’ll never be fluent!” We don’t claim English as “ours and our responsibility alone.”
You see, every minority that has gained ground in society in terms of rights and awareness demanded segregation. Eminem, the rapper, is accepted as part of Black culture. Because Blacks segregated and allowed whites to immerse themselves within their culture, we have a Black president.
Maybe it’s time we opened our doors and said, “Anyone who wants to learn ASL is welcome!”
Maybe it’s time we demanded that Gallaudet University put a halt to its 1% policy (only 1% of undergraduate student body can be hearing, regardless of their ASL fluency). And start saying, “We are the only Liberal Arts University in the world to be taught entirely in ASL. To be a student here, fluency in ASL is a must.”
Then with that, a deaf person who knows no ASL and prefers to talk on the phone and pretend they’re not deaf would be shut out of Gallaudet and a CODA who is born in all-ASL environment will not be shut out.
Realistically, segregation never worked, ever. The Deaf community’s constant persistence in wanting this (no hearing kids in residential schools in spite of the fact the kid may have deaf parents AND sibilings!) We must make ourselves visible out there in the real world.
We need to stop fooling ourselves by thinking holding ASL in our community ensures its survival. The less it’s out there, the more sure I am it will die.
It’ll be our own damn fault!
Let’s be smart here. Many of Deaf individuals seem to forget that they live in a hearing world, yet they live as if the Deaf world and its social norms is the only thing they should adhere to.
If them hearings don’t understand our norms and all that–they will not accept it at face value. If we keep refusing segregation, we are promising our own demise.
Separate but equal is bullshit.
Wake up, people!
This Deaf community is on “self-destruct” mode and we refuse to place the blame on ourselves.
How stupid.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:17 am
I am victim by Doctor’s greed and ignorant
http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/45425/
He had a cochlear implant
April 17th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Thank you for saying it —>>>Anonymous Says: April 17th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Miracle and Cure to be mentioned that is when it turns us off in a big time from a start that leads us against hearing device all along. There are life and death risks that we do not ask for it because Audism want us to change for not who we are into . Oh please!
I dont believe any human beings have their rights to manipulate or change Deaf child or babies into a hearing child because it s not gonna to be this way and is a real big damage of our mental health more than you think/know.. That is no need to have the big lies against us and damage toward Deaf human being s soul, mind and body that belongs to them not the parents or medical or anyone else. That is a real abuse to destroy their true identity and being deaf as natural deaf human beings from the beginning. Also, they are deaf and healthy that doesn’t need to have any surgery at all that is the reason I am so against it. They got no choice to stop them then who else will do this?? I m the one of those people who are willing to protect Deaf babies/ children s Deaf civil rights .
Leave the children alone since Man-Made is not considering to be more safety for those Deaf babies/children that will hurt and damage their original nerve system that connect to any organs to be affective. It s abuse to let it leads more problem for many Deaf babies/ children’s mental health.. NO need to be selfish to force them to hear for you and your sake. Deaf will be always deaf as is.
For Some Deaf /Latened deaf adults and some parents with a very negative audist attitude , people made the decision as your own choice that I dont give a hoot about your wishes. I dont like their attitude because it s being so negative about our being deaf and our deafness that has no harm us from a start after all Medical and Audism harms us many ways for their $$$$$$$$ . That s a big scam all along. Sighs!
Rip us off all along that we didnt asking for more plight of suffering to be continued after Deaf people realized to get their eyes opened and got those flashbacks for what Audism did it to us that NEEDS to be stopped.. That is a high toleration for you to put up with and deal with it while it s not very healthy as well. Because Audism is the part of dysfunctional behaviors that I am seeing and could not stand it anymore so I ll fight against dysfunctional behaviors to be influence on Deaf people of the Deaf community by AGBell and their own Audism associators. So be it!
Thank you.
Deaf SweetMind
April 17th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Amen, Ben amen! That is exactly my thinking.
Can I expand on that, Ben? No? Too bad!
I said the same thing in the Deaf March thingy planned for 3 years down the road. I said that we will have to embrace the hearing people so that they can help empower the deaf people. It is a must! Sorry, if you don’t like it, but that is the only way it will work. The million man march – were they all black? Of course not!
So like Ben says, it is up to us. Well, I’m doing my part cuz the people in my company (All deaf) wanna learn ASL! Awesome! Now, do I slam the door on them? Of course not! That would be very very stupid.
That was a hell of an expansion, sorry, Ben, I didn’t mean to high jack your comment. Keep rockin’ the boat, my man!
April 17th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Ben Vess wrote:
“To answer CW’s statement regarding about ASL going away. You have it wrong. You just don’t get it, do you? The only reason why ASL will die off is because we the Deaf community refuses to share it. You see, ASL have the potentional to become one of the mainstream languages out there.”
Where did I say that?
All I said was that the deaf activists appear to believe that ASL will die away with the advent of CI technology.
And, what is there to ‘get’? I am an ASL user with a CI and I have children who have CIs and also use ASL.
April 17th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Perhaps, a brief or study on the interactions between people and technologies throughout history can help some people understand why some Deaf people exhibit some hostility toward the technology of cochlear implant, especially on deaf babies and children. Technologies usually (or always, not sure if it is always) change the structure, culture and lifestyle of societies that use these technologies. A very good example is automation. It is undeniable that automation changes the societies in many expected and unexpected ways. Then, there is usually small number of people that resist the changes that the technologies bring on the societies. I am sure that people are aware of the story about Luddities.
The moral and ethical angles on any technology including cochlear implant are extremely complex that there are endless volumes and volumes of writings on them. There are many writings on technology in general and on specific technologies. As an example, there was news about Canada providing free prenatal test to all pregnant women for Down’s syndrome in their embryos. I came across one writing that explains the possibility of having a society (that is, Canada) free of people with Down’s syndrome and discusses on whether it is good or not.
I agree with Ms. Karen Mayes that the technology of cochlear implant is here to stay precisely because there are people who want it. History has plenty of evidence to support this.
Mr. Ben Vess mentioned about generational characteristic. This is true for many technologies but there is enough evidence to show that the younger generations do inherit the same position from the older generations. For example, the organic technologies that more and more farmers start to use are inherited from older generations although there are some modifications to the technologies.
I have my own personal moral and ethical standing on the technology of cochlear implant but I have noticed that some people are not able to accept the fact that just because I am against something does not necessarily mean that I will treat people who do that something differently. A good example is that I oppose smoking but it does not mean that I will treat smokers differently from non-smokers in almost all situations.
The technology of cochlear implant definitely continues to change the landscape of the Deaf culture and deaf community as noted by some commenters. Some or few members of the Deaf culture do not like this and it does not surprise me at all that they refuse to see cochlear implant in positive light or accept it without great reservations.
I would like to respond to the anonymous person who wrote that the deaf babies are the gift from the Almighty (comment #3). I am familiar with this perspective. The favorite counterpoint to this perspective is that the Almighty also gives people the knowledge to develop the technologies that improve the life of deaf babies. Then, I know that there is counter-counterpoint that claims that not all knowledge can be put in good uses. This brings back to my previous point about the moral and ethical angles being very complex.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
April 17th, 2009 at 10:56 am
[riffly_video]D397C5682B7E11DE9D5EC94D49680BD4[/riffly_video]
April 17th, 2009 at 11:33 am
We may experience big change in our Deaf community in the 21st century. For example, Indiana School for the Deaf faces some challenges this coming Fall ’09. http://www.deafhoosiers.com/Superintendent/SuptNL/ Click Dr. David Geeslin’s vlogs under “Changes in Fall ’09″. We may just have to ride along with our “society” no matter where we try to turn right or left yet we are in the same wave. Neither Capitalism nor Socialism will be able to help Deaf. It’s THE society we live in.
“Nothing can raise a country’s productivity except technology, and technology is the final product of a complex of sciences (including philosophy), each of them kept alive and moving by the achievements of a few independent minds.”
Ayn Rand
April 17th, 2009 at 11:39 am
if people watch comments at dvtv carefully, they can have the question answered. mz, did you watch all comments? i am not sure why you are STILL wondering. ella, carl, deafchip, and many other people gave many good reasons why it is oppressive.
April 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
To echo Ecnarb’s comment, yes. ISD is changing in order to meet the society’s expectations as much as it can without losing ASL. ISD will have a Spoken English program next fall, pending the approval of School Board. ISD acknowledges that it needs to become MORE inclusive, instead of being insular.
ISD strongly believes in three “acies”… SIGNacy, LITERacy, AND ORacy. Oracy is for SOME students with aptitude for speaking and listening, we can’t deny them that right.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Responding to the comment made by susan (comment #21):
Given that DeafVIDEO.TV requires that the comments must be expressed in a signed language (ASL, BSL or any other signed language) (as explained in http://www.deafvideo.tv/help/ ), anyone who wants to leave a textual comment can’t do it at DeafVIDEO.TV. The blogger Mishka Zena gives some commenters an opportunity to give their views on the topic in the written English language.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
“You’re better off now with an implant than when you were without. You can now function in the world as you should. Your implant gives you opportunities that those poor deaf kids without implants will never have. Oh darn, I love you more now that you can hear me express my love for you. If it wasn’t for your implant, you’d just be a poor deaf child like those kids who can’t speak. It is just a shame that some people don’t see how this technology takes away your being deaf.”
Poor little deaf people…
You need to be like us strong hearing people.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Thank you, Joseph.
How can it be oppressive? It is just a tool like glasses and a car. It is a choice and everyone has a choice.
Now, go back up and read all the comments carefully especially #13.
“ella, carl, deafchip, and many other people” are just scared is all. They are scared to face changes. Scared to work a little harder to embrace hearing people. Just plain scared, it is that simple.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Jeffery –
Where did that quote come from?? You have the habit of making things up, so I don’t believe you one bit. When I say embrace the hearing, it does NOT mean to be like them, but to co-exist with them! They are not going anywhere. You can’t leave your house and not run into a hearing person.
So, lighten up and face the facts!
April 17th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I wonder what is Carl’s position on the ASL-CI community?
April 17th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Brian,
Scared you say? I don’t think it has so much to do with fear. It believe it has more to do with being oppressed and discriminated upon.
Who said you MUST hear and speak to lead a normal life?
April 17th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Susan, they described it from their POV which doesn’t give the full picture. Now intellectually I understand better, after thinking some more about it.
Brian, it’s not fear, but a deep conflicts of philosophy. In the Deaf Culture, especially among DoDs, deafness (deafhood) is a treasured cultural trait which doesn’t need to be fixed. For some Deaf people, the concept of a wonderful trait viewed as a medical problem deserving to be fixed is offensive.
However, 90-95 percent of Deaf children’s parents are hearing, valuing aural language. Deafness is a medical problem, not a cultural issue. To them, it is sensible for wanting their Deaf kids to hear and talk, so they can share the same benefits along with their families, using the same spoken language. In their opinions, cochlear implants provide their children more tools to help them navigate in the hearing world, i.e. their world and therefore isn’t oppressive.
Just like it’s not wrong for Deaf parents to want their Deaf kids to remain Deaf. To them, their Deaf children are fine. Any mechanical repairs are viewed oppressive and ASL meets their linguistic needs.
Both cultures are judgmental of each others’ cultural values. . Since they hold completely the opposite values, it makes sense.
Ethnocentrism
April 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Brian,
From what I’m reading, you don’t care about why some of us think the way we do. You just want us to shut up and accept the way things are. That’s how I interpret your comment to be.
In essence, with your and similar comments by others, the Deaf Community’s viewpoint is absolutely disregarded. Then to add insult to injury, we’re force-fed the opposing viewpoint.
Is it any wonder why so many of us in the community are angry, particularly about CIs? It should not be surprising that some of us turn around and try to do the same thing back. It doesn’t mean it is right – I think it’s wrong…. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
However, I can understand the anger. I would be angry too if my viewpoint was just completely dismissed out of hand, without any consideration of its potential merits.
If we really want to change things for the better, we need to understand WHY it’s happening. Which means there needs to be an effort to understand where the opposition is coming from.
April 17th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I’m a DoD. And, not only that, I wear a hearing aid. So, based on what I KNOW and how I value hearing as much as I LOVE signs/ASL, I don’t see anything wrong with a C.I. It is a tool. Probably better than hearing aids!
I know for a fact that many deaf people feel that C.I. will change the face of deaf culture (of course, as with time and technology, all things change).
Many also have misconceptions about C.I., they actually think it is harmful and are not fully aware of the factual pros and cons of having a C.I.
Many deaf teachers rarely see both sides of the implants, they usually see the bad sides (i.e., kids not being successful in a regular mainstream setting, due to factors not necessarily related to the implant itself.)
And for many older deaf, they are misguided about the C.I. and they also think it is horrible for anyone to implant a child, most will say, why fix them? God gave us a deaf child for a reason.
With the older generation, I actually am excusing them because they just are so set in their ways. With the younger generation, we know better that technology changes over time.
Lastly, not everyone is receptive to change.
Usually those that oppose fervently do not take the time and effort to assess all sides and get factual information. It may not be something they want or something they would encourage. Maybe it would help if they put themselves in another person’s shoe, assume that they are hearing and that is all they have ever known, for example.
Just because they wouldn’t want it for themselves or others, doesn’t give them the right to go gaga over the choices that parents make for their child.
I have increased awareness among my deaf family and they realized that they were misinformed and misguided. The stuffs that I see deaf people say about what C.I. does to a person is amazing. A lotta bad information going on out there. People need to get their facts straight.
April 17th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Changes are happening, but give me credit for my age, I am old enough to see that humanity remains the same and revolutions tend to happen in cycles.
For this reason, I am not impressed by opinions that the CI and future enhancements to hearing will cause schools for the deaf to close, Deaf Culture to die out, and clubs for the deaf to disappear. That we are seeing this happen is part of a cycle, not a progression to an end.
We will see a larger number of mainstreamed, partly-hearing adults finding their own solutions and it will include new kinds of gatherings–either in cyberspace or special interest groups rather than churches and clubs. We will also see more true bicultural d/Deaf people. We will also see deeper divisions among ourselves that rival the oral-manual split that Alexander Graham Bell caused.
But we will see the rise of more special education programs, perhaps at first in mainstream schools, and later evolving into magnet schools with specialist teachers. Remember how blind children and deaf children were grouped together and later moved out to separate schools since their needs were so different. We will see more hearing children among the deaf children who also need a more visual type of education.
But the cycle will continue. Enhanced Deaf will continue to seek out each other, and the smaller numbers of Deaf sans enhanced hearing will continue to develop the uniqueness of their culture. And hearing people will continue to move on, not necessarily including these d/Deaf people, causing us to continue to function as a society in ourselves. We gain too much strength and comfort from one another to give this up.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Elizabeth,
You brought up a valid question.
Some of the commenters are correct when they say that part of the anger is that Deaf adults’ experiences are often dismissed right out of hand… Brian’s comment exhibits an egregious lack of respect for the culturally Deaf people’s natural aversion to being forced to assimiliate into the Hearing world. CI is seen as a tool of assimilation and a rejection of Deaf culture and values, and clear message, as Carl said, that to be Deaf is unacceptable, and must be fixed.
It’s that attitude that RANKLES those of us who embrace ourselves as Deaf beings without the need for modification.
Deaf educators in North America have seen quite a number of Deaf children with CI who were doomed to be semi-lingual, in BOTH ASL and English! When mainstreaming education fails, ASL is only the last resort, and by then it’s TOO LATE to have a full language acquisition.
What ENRAGES me is that there are stories of Deaf children with CI being consigned to the usage of Picture Exchange Program (book of pictures that autistic children, and Downs Syndrome children as well, use to communicate their requests and needs) in public schools, rather than being allowed to acquire ASL!
These things are ALLOWED to happen in 2009, and people have the unmitigated GALL to tell us our experiences don’t count, and that CI is the best thing that could happen to Deaf children since sliced bread?!
Give me a break!
April 17th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I have seen on some posts, comments, and videos in the past where some people say that CI can kill a baby/person and that deaths or serious injuries have arose from CI surgery. I can understand that it can potentially happen, but what troubles me about that statement is this.
You are probably much more likely to get killed or seriously injured in a car accident than you would as a result of a CI surgery, yet these people get in cars and drive away with no qualms whatsoever.
Go figure!
April 17th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Deaf Individual, yes, I’ve heard similar reports regarding some c.i.kids with no or minimal language skills. These reports concern me.
Why is there no language assessment for Deaf students to measure their linguistic competencies? Where are the safeguards to prevent the Deaf children from falling between the cracks? That’s what I don’t understand.
Cochlear implants do work, but it doesn’t work for everybody. Consequently it should be mandatory for the schools to monitor the linguistic progress of the Deaf students.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Mishka, now that is a great idea!!! monitoring the linguistic process, cuz it appears that by the time babies get implanted at two or earlier years of age, they should be ready for public schools by the time they’re in kindergarden or first grade. Not that one can force the parent, but that could make for a good propaganda tool, where you can say if implant by two, if not ready for kindergarden or first grade in at that age, time to suggest a different approach.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Commenting on the comment made by Mr. Brian L. Mayes:
The perspective that cochlear implant is just a tool is a valid position among many moral and ethical angles on technology. However, this is not the only angle that exists in the discourses on technology. The other angle, which sometimes competes with the previous one, is that no technology is always benign. That is, how technology is used determines the morality and ethics of using the technology.
I want to give an analogy only for the purpose of explaining an abstract concept. I do not intend it to be analogous to the Deaf culture and cochlear implant. Most people think that the Amish people are old-fashioned that shun technologies. In many ways, the observation is correct. But, contrary to what people think, the Amish people do use some of the latest technologies. For example, some Amish communities use telephone, but not in the way we use. They permit only one telephone for a small number of houses and it is placed in small booth (I don’t know what it is called) outside of these houses. The reason for extreme restriction on telephone is that if each house has its own telephone, the need for people to gather together or to meet face-to-face will diminish as more people use telephone. This harms the fundamental core of community that the Amish people highly value. To them, telephone is not just a tool. The usage of telephone can either help or harm people. For them, allowing each individual to have a telephone will harm the cohesiveness among the community. It is not my place to judge them but I do understand that they have their own view on technology. I still can analyze their view and apply my critical thinking to it but I have to be careful that I should not be too judgmental of their belief.
The purpose of the analogy is to show that for some people, technology is not just a tool but does has the potential of being beneficial or harmful for people. To disclose, I hold this view. I do not think that all technologies are benign. But, I never want to impose my view on other people.
Mishka Zena gave a good explanation on how the technology of cochlear implant does not dovetail with the core cultural value of Deaf culture, at least for some members of the culture. This may explain why these members exhibited hostility to the technology of cochlear implant.
But, the serious problem with these members is that they are trying to impose their view on other people who have different view on cochlear implant. It is okay to discuss on the views but if a person attempts to impose his view on other person, the discussion will only turn sour and will not go anywhere. I use Audism Free America (AFA) as an example that never condemns the message as given by two members that AFA wants to stop deaf babies and children from receiving cochlear implant. This is America and we highly value great tolerance toward other people who have different views.
Another problem that I see with these members of Deaf culture is their attitude toward people who have different views on cochlear implant. As the saying goes, attitude is everything. Their attitude is extremely judgmental. In my opinion, this is not very helpful. But then, on the flip side, I have seen the attitude from some members of the hearing culture to be judgmental as well.
It is not just cochlear implant that they have to deal with. I just became aware of a young lady that has Auditory Brainstem Implant (ABI) (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZts4scYWsQ and http://runnerchick87.wordpress.com/category/auditory-brainstem-implant/ ). The technology continues to progress rapidly and unabatedly.
I like the lesson that I learned from the Matrix Trilogy and Star Trek. The lesson is that it is possible for people of different views on technology to co-exist. In the last movie of the Matrix Trilogy, I originally thought that Neo intended to destroy the Machine. But, I was surprised to see that Neo wanted to make peace with the Machine, making it possible for the Machine to co-exist with the humanity. It is possible for the members of Deaf culture to hold their view on cochlear implant and other technologies and co-exist with the members of the hearing culture that holds different view on these technologies without the need to become judgmental of each other view and to impose one view on other culture. I think that, unfortunately, co-existence is rejected outright by some or few members of Deaf culture and likewise, of hearing culture.
Apology to Mishka Zena for writing so long comment.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Lately I’ve been reading the blogs of some hearing parents raising deaf children with CI implants and implementing not only AVT or some aural therapy for speech skills but also ASL to help improve vocabulary and social skills with other deaf children.
These parents are including their child in the Deaf culture and using ASL with them as well. The parents believe that by giving these options to their child, the youngster will acquire language quickly and have the best of both worlds. The child can later choose to go one way or the other or keep both in his life.
Yet some of these hearing parents keep asking where is the deaf community when it comes to supporting their efforts to raise their deaf child with ASL language, along with Deaf culture immersion. Is it because the child wears the technology? Something is wrong here when some Deaf members dislike both the technology AND the child who is using ASL in particular.
They don’t have to like the technology but to look down on the child because he/she wears a CI is not fair to the child. Parents learn about the warmth and sense of worth a Deaf culture gives to its members, but the double messages about CIs given out by some members dispel any image about the deaf community’s having open arms. Not a wonder some parents feel frustration and turn to other resources, such as AGBell.
Strange dichotomy.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Well, first of all, totally misunderstandings are being thrown around. Everything that I said was misread or misinterpreted.
Candy is on point.
I just think everyone needs to read everything again. Embrace DOES NOT mean MUST! That is a twist of words and I don’t appreciate it.
“Brian’s comment exhibits an egregious lack of respect for the culturally Deaf people’s natural aversion to being forced to assimiliate into the Hearing world.” Show me exactly where I said that? Where? You totally twisted my words! How dare you! My whole family is deaf! We are culturally deaf!! How can we not be? You think we are here to play funny games?
Boy, you people really piss me off at times! And Deaf Pundit wonders why?
April 17th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
MZ, perhaps it is because the parents were not as involved as they should be, not following the plan? Or maybe parents figured they will just let the school take care of their child? There’s many reasons why these kids falls through the cracks but I am going to bet that it has nothing to do with the implants themselves. You have seen already, dedicated parents have successful implanted kids. It’s evidenced in these blogs. Why have we not seen parents come online and say that their own child is not where the other succesful C.I. kids are? Are they not interested? Not involved? Who knows. I believe there are parents out there who were not as informed and assumed that implants will take care of things itself, for example, assume that kids will pick up things on their own.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
JPR,
About the Amish community and technology.
I’ts interesting that the deaf community actually changed deaf culture in some ways, especially at Gallaudet. Pagers/cell phones created a different atmosphere. Used to be students would congregate all over campus, etc. Now, you rarely see the same atmosphere compared to maybe 20 years ago. The campus is quite on the outside and students do not find the need for being cohesive outside, because they keep in touch using their pagers/cell phone and meet as planned. Deaf Club used to be a starting point to meet and head out somewhere, that’s no longer the case.
And, speaking of deaf clubs, I see more varied members, including those that attended mainstream setting. We’re seeing changes. I don’t think deaf culture will go away, as I have always stated elsewhere in the blogosphere. It will evolve. Definitely not the end. But a “hey day” sorely missed by many.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Definitely Embrace does not mean “Must” Ahh, do we need a dictionary here?
April 17th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Joseph –
How is saying, “How can it be oppressive? It is just a tool like glasses and a car. It is a choice and everyone has a choice.” That CI is anything but that: a tool. I didn’t go into the philosophical or cultural aspect of putting in or wearing a CI. I didn’t.
I understand all the feelings associated with a CI. It is one of the reasons why I would not CI my kids cuz I would rather they grew up and made that choice for themselves. And I refuse to scream at them for making that decision if they did decide to make that choice. I love them dearly and I love them as a human being, not because they are deaf. That would be a silly concept.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
I think it’s a combination of several things, failure to ensure that the child coprehends aural language through cochlear implants, the failure of the school to educate the child, and the failure of the parents to monitor the child’s academic progress and be the advocate for the child.
The problem is compounded when the teacher isn’t trained to teach the Deaf student. I do wonder about the interrant teacher of the Deaf and whether the state dept of Deaf education (or county) monitors its Deaf students in the mainstreamed programs.
Heavy parental involvement is usually the major element of good student progress.
On the other hands, if the school does its job properly, they can catch the students who are not faring well.
It appears there are failures of multiple safeguards here. The tragedy is that the student pays the price.. with permanent linguistic damages. Schools should be held accountable for failing the students.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I totally concur with Candy! It is all up to the parents. It happens in the hearing world too. It is a huge, unselfishness job! 18 years for TLC! It is the hardest job you will ever love!
April 17th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Traditionally when the parents failed the Deaf children, the Deaf schools picked up the slack and the children were nurtured in the Deaf atmosphere.
That can be lacking in the mainstreamed programs. The children may have no back up, should the safeguards fail.
The Deaf Comunity see the Deaf children falling between the cracks too many times. Hence its anger and frustrations.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
MZ -
You do have a good point about the school doing its job, but the teachers already have their hands full without wondering how each students is feeling or doing. Again, I believe it is totally up to the parents to make sure that the child is getting the education s/he needs, to keep an open communication with the teacher and to give your support/suggestions to the school system.
Of course, the parents can’t be with the child all the time, but they can be on top of things. It is hard work, yes, but it is doable!
April 17th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Hi Candy, You are exactly right!
To Mr. Mayes, Sorry that I ranted too much on the philosophical aspect. I can see from few angles how cochlear implant, or any technology, can be oppressive. But then, from other angles, it is not. Enough with the philosophy.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Brian, in response to your pugnacious comment challenge of my description of your attitude, please refer to Deafpundit’s comment #30. I will paste that part here.
” From what I’m reading, you don’t care about why some of us think the way we do. You just want us to shut up and accept the way things are. That’s how I interpret your comment to be.
In essence, with your and similar comments by others, the Deaf Community’s viewpoint is absolutely disregarded. Then to add insult to injury, we’re force-fed the opposing viewpoint.
Is it any wonder why so many of us in the community are angry, particularly about CIs?”
I did not twist your words. In fact, I didn’t have to. I interpreted the attitude behind your words, the SAME way DeafPundit interpreted it.
FYI: I don’t care whether you come from a Deaf family or not, nor do I care what your pedigree is. That means nothing when you continuously disregard and devalue the views of Deaf people who resist or at least question cochlear implantation of people.
It might be a good idea to attempt to view things FROM the other side. Maybe you will be a lot more understanding.
Thank you for publishing this, if you do, Mishka Zena. This is not intended as an attack on Brian, but rather, I hope this will help Brian understand why I reacted to his comment the way I did.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Brian, yup, definitely parents needs to be involved as much as they can. I don’t have deaf/hoh kids, but, I can imagine how it is. My parents just put their faith in the system, thank God, I came out ok. lol I’m not lacking anywhere, for that matter.
I just watched Carl’s video just now and realized that he is bitter about not being able to teach due to parents questioning whether he is the right teacher for kids who are implanted. I wish he would explain what kind of an educational setting he was in. Were all kids implanted? Or is it a mixture of deaf/hoh kids with and without implants? He’s not providing more information. And, with his situation, I wonder if he even bothered to file an EEO complaint because he has a right to oral interpreter for these implanted kids. He’s not getting into much detail which leaves a lot to speculation. Is that a good reason for him to denounce C.I.? Hmm..I think not. It is personal to him.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Mishka,
To respond to your question about language assessments to Deaf Individual… It isn’t that simple.
First of all, language assessments in public schools are usually in English
Second…. what are the language expectations of Deaf children by the time they get to Kindergarten? The ability to speak (enunciate) a few words? A few sentences? Is that a measure of true language acquisition?
Do educators, or professional assessors, set the same standards for Deaf children with cochlear implants as they do for Hearing children?
What type of language assessments are done?
There are issues in the expectations that hamper valid and reliable assessments of Deaf children.
We need to consider that.
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Valhallian,
Kindergarten and Grade 1 is a little late to catch children when they are not acquiring language.
The best period for children to acquire language (window of opportunity if you will) can close as early as age 6, which is precisely the age of Grade 1 (at least in Canada). Language assessments need to happen much earlier.
We need to think… tools for language assessments… some think sound discrimination and ability to speak a few words is actually a good indication of language acquirement! We all know this is not true.
Like Mishka Zena, I have heard of the stories as told by Deaf Individual.
Accountability of schools and educators need to be examined.
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
[...] her latest post, Mishka asks the question, Cochlear Implants Are Oppressive To Some? Yes, it is a sensitive issue, but the bigger question is, why are we Deafies always being asked to [...]
April 17th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Elizabeth,
Itinerant teachers (at least in Ontario, and same is true of NY, I believe) often only visit Deaf children once or twice a week for perhaps 40 minutes each time, and it’s often to check the Deaf child’s equipment, as Carl mentioned, and to go over the child’s program/tutor them.
I agree that there aren’t proper safeguards in place for Deaf children who fall through the cracks. Accountability of not only schools, but also of the medical profession need to be looked at, seriously.
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
I had another friend, also a teacher, who was questioned by hearing parents regarding his ability to teach their c.i. kid. The principal of that Deaf school was resistant to the idea of a voice interpreter for the c.i. kid. I find it ironically that public schools provide ASL interpreters in the hearing classrooms, but not a voice interpreter for a c.i. kid in an ASL classroom. The use of Sim Com may be detrimental to the Deaf classmates of this c.i. student.
The classroom dynamics are obviously changing.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
I will make my comment as short and sweet as humanly possible in responce to your blog, “Cochlear Implants Are Oppressive To Some?”, as well as to some of your readers’comments.
It is not cochlear implant — or, oralism, for that matter — to which culturally deaf people oppose.
It is audism to which culturally deaf people oppose.
Pure and simple, n’est-ce pas?
April 17th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Elizabeth,
Can you clarify what you mean by the changing of classroom dynamics? Are you referring to the classes in mainstream schools? or just in general?
Perhaps my brain is winding down at this late hour
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Jean,
Come to think of it. You’re correct. It is the message of audism behind the cochlear implant that culturally Deaf people object to.
This is an excellent explanation for the STRONG sentiments we see, and feel.
It’s not necessarily the CI per se, but the symbolism of the CI… what it symbolizes for culturally Deaf people…audism.
Before people attack Jean and me for our points, I would hope these people would stop and think. We are NOT labelling people as audists for implanting their children. It is the SYMBOLISM that is inherent in that piece of technology.
It does bear thinking and reflecting upon, doesn’t it?
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
In response to Ann_C’s comment:
“Yet some of these hearing parents keep asking where is the deaf community when it comes to supporting their efforts to raise their deaf child with ASL language, along with Deaf culture immersion. Is it because the child wears the technology? Something is wrong here when some Deaf members dislike both the technology AND the child who is using ASL in particular.”
My take on this is most likely because many or most in local Deaf communities have NOT heard of or met these children or their parents. If theyhad, I’m most certain that they would have been there for the parents and children.
Consider this:
In the past, one of the first places these parents go to are the Schools for the Deaf, so they were visible to the Deaf community. In the present, the Deaf Schools are often the last places these parents go, so often the Deaf community don’t find out until late. These parents and Deaf children go to local school boards where Deaf communities are small, nil or nonexistent. So what support could there be?
This is my hypothesis only.
Shel
April 17th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Deaf Individual –
You take DP’s word over mine?? That is a strange way of communicating. First of all, she was completely wrong about judging my interpretation and in judging me as a person.
Now, to put your foot in your mouth, show me where I have said such things as you have claim? Where? There is nowhere any post anywhere where I stated that I disagree with the deaf communities view of CI people. You won’t find anything cuz I never said any such thing.
Of course, I care about what you all think. If you had read my post right in the first place, you would have noticed that I said my family is deaf. You jumped the gun and assumed that my parents are deaf, well, you are only half right, but I was referring to my wife and 2 kids. They are deaf. So, of course, I care how you are think of CI kids cuz my wife and I had to make that decision to do it or not.
April 17th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Jean and Shel –
Ok, fine, I understand what you are saying, now, explain the deaf communities’ view of a hearing aid? Why is it any different?
April 17th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Shel,
I am in toto agreement with you on on this point which you discussed ciochlear implant as symbolism. The symbolism can be very clearly discerned in a Canadian scientist’s letter (<vid.infra.
Source: Deafness as a Culture by Edward Dolnick, THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY, p.8, Dec. 1993.
Jean
April 17th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Born Deaf from birth is not a life threatening. The Deaf babies and children are super healthy! Why rush? It is all about $$ and parents’ false hope. I have a dear friend who’s in 40′s is getting the CI this summer – because she eventually will become blind as she grows older. Again it is all up to the Deaf adults to decide. I respect them. The problem is I don’t like seeing the parents’ of small CI children get the false hope. It depends on each person’s abilities. I grew up as a Deaf Oralist, I had a pretty good hearing with help of the hearing aid and I speak fairly well. Unfortunately, my written English was somewhat poor until I came to Gallaudet. I had learned so much! I lagged behind in a big time. Having an ASL English Professor is blessing. If I hadn’t gone to Gallaudet, I would not be able to write well here in this blog. A Deaf co-worker of mine’s speech poor and she excels in English! She is even better than me!! Deaf Getting CI or Hearing aid doesn’t make any difference to everyone. The bottom line is communication and depends on each person. It is not about a perfect speech or hearing. I personally wear hearing aid once in a while (only when the tinnitus comes back and listening to the relaxing sounds of my CD player) — CI is not on my priority list because I am not going to die from being Deaf. ASL is a must for every Deaf and HH children and even with CI.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Brian, I don’t know why DP and DI thinks that way, I mean they may be looking into it much more than what’s really there. I didn’t find your comment to be full of some attitude. I get you.
Without seeing the person face to face or hearing the tone, it goes without saying. maybe it’s because I know you more via the fun blogs your wife and you and many others hang out at? lol
They could have asked you to clarify things and to elaborate a bit more.
Shel, ever wonder why parents back then in the old days were more than happy to send their child to a deaf residential school than they are now? Parents nowadays are more in tune with the best interest of their child more so and they have more arsenal, they are more educated. They prefer to keep their child home, to be close as a family to be a great part of their childs life. How many deaf people do you know that tells you they do not have a close relationship with their parents? Maybe it isn’t JUST about communication, maybe it was more so because they don’t spend enough quality time with their own parents.
Let’s for now, look at ALL parents (not just parents of deaf, but ALL children) these days and compare them to the parents of 20 or more so years ago, what are the differences? Look at the sports competition back then and now, for example. Then look at the different approach parents are tackling when it comes to children that are deaf.
April 17th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Shel, I don’t know if I explain it clearly, I understand you said it is your hypothesis. Are you insinuating that parents of deaf children are now less informed and have less resources or exposure to deaf children compared to years ago? My explanation above pretty much was pointing out the opposite. I mingle with my kids’ hearing friend’s parents, I see so much competition between parents for their kids when it should be kids having fun with kids. The same thing applies to everything from education and so on. These parents KNOWS what they’re doing. There’s no lack of anything for most of them. Otherwise, can you explain why and how you reach that hypothesis?? Are you saying the best school for deaf kids are state residential schools? That may not be true for all deaf kids, do you realize that?
April 17th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
shel – #52 – you do bring up valid points and considering the fact that I am not in the field of education so I would not be the best person to give an exact answer. The reason I suggested kindergarden or first grade is for a few reasons.
1) One of the most common arguments I’ve been told that supports AVT, for example, is that if they are implanted before two years, they are usually ready for public schools by the time kindergarden or 1st grade arrives.
2) granted, there may be a slight delay in language development, but there are many foreign kids out their that move into this county beyond the first grade, yet they catch up quickly and learn to master the English language.
3) I don’t know what the educational systems are like these days, as its been nearly 40 years since I would have been at the kindergarden level, I certainly do not remember practicing “stricter” grammatical skills at that age. I would imagine that would not begin until its past the kindergarden stage.
4) I don’t like this term, but to use a common ASL arguments against the CI concept, the “oral failures that get dumped in state institutions”, I would imagine are not placed in the state institutions or the like until well beyond the kindergarden and first grade stage.
Now these are strictly my own opinions and I am not an educator. I only thought it would make for a fair compromise in the battle between ASL and AVT. Where the ASL supporter can say to hearing parents, look we will respect your decision but you should be aware that if you implant your child by the time he or she is two and pursue the AVT avenue, if she makes very little or no progress by the time he or she if 5 or 6, you may want to consider a different approach other than AVT. And because the parent was not bashed by the ASL signers, they may actually be more open to it as opposed to what has happened in recent history with the protests against AVT which highly likely just completely scares the many of the hearing parents of deaf children away.
Picture this, suppose we put 100 people in a locked room, 50 hard core ASL people and 50 hard core AVT people, no one can leave the room, eat, sleep, etc until a mutually agreed compromise is reached, and what I suggested would likely become one of those compromises I would think.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:41 am
Occasionally in discussion threads, a real point occurs that nails it. Jean’s comment that it isn’t the CI, but the audism behind it that Deaf people object to.
Great observation. Yes, Brian, hearing aids are included in that concept. So are the repressive methods of oralism in the past and prohibition of ASL. They are objecting to “All d/Deaf must be brought up to Hearing standards.”
How to reconcile the anti-audism viewpoint with the Hearing expectation of hearing and speaking? Is it really as impossible as it sounds?
What Deaf people are asking is to be accepted as fully valued people, in all our different forms, with or without enhancements.
What involved Hearing people are asking is not to have their approaches viewed as repressive, but only as enhancements.
What noninvolved Hearing are asking is to have their ways respected. They have constructed a system that works and are not (at present) interested in the extra effort it takes to be more inclusive.
How to reconcile all this? Legislation. Public education. More understanding. Better approaches.
That includes us, too. Respect applies to everybody. Audism needs to be dealt with, but without hurting the people that enhancements benefit.
April 18th, 2009 at 2:33 am
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April 18th, 2009 at 3:40 am
I’m increasingly sceptical these CI debates do anything at all for the community. They are just for them or against them with no middle road, and certainly no way of bridging these divisive ramblings on various blogs, regarding Mr Schroeder I have had to take the unprecedented step of publishing a blog because he refuses answer criticism of his view.
What happened to acceptance ? or even debating with opponents to justify it ? If you are happy with a CI and what it may do for you, and worse blog to that effect, that is audism and oralism and a dozen other isms they have invented, as well as a direct attack on deaf culture.
3 cheers for deaf culture. If you heartily oppose them then you become a rights advocate for deaf culture, and gain Kudos there… but who is fooling who ? You can do it some of the time and maybe fool a few, all the time but you won’t fool all of us all the time…
Too many on both sides enjoy the aggravation it causes, perhaps they are chicken to admit how prejudiced both sides really are, and the fact they don’t want unity at any price, mostly because they don’t understand what it means to make it work, it’s called compromise, and listening not shouting.
April 18th, 2009 at 4:34 am
I have a question for Ms. Jean Boutcher and Shel.
At what point will putting cochlear implant on deaf babies and children be no longer considered as audistic?
(I intentionally leave the definition of children vague. I let you decide the range of age for children, if you like to.)
If you are not able to come up with a set of conditions where putting cochlear implant on deaf babies and children does not convey the symbolism of audism, it only contradicts with your claim that audism and cochlear implant are separable. When you bring up the symbolism, it is extremely difficult (or probably impossible) to separate it from the technologies or media that convey such symbolism. Symbolism does not exist in vacuum.
Mr. Mayes asked a good question about the technology of hearing aid. This gives additional evidence to what Candy and Mr. Vess said about the difference between the generations. The objection to cochlear implant seems to be more related to the generational gap than audism.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
April 18th, 2009 at 4:56 am
I like what Valhallian said about suggesting parents to use a different approach if there is no substantive progress in their deaf children. This reminds me of what AGBADHH wrote at its website:
“Choose an option and “stick with it” for at least six to twelve months. Then, along with the professionals who are working with you, assess your child’s progress with the communication option(s) you have selected.”
and
“While it is not advisable to “just try” option after option, in some cases parents find that the option they initially selected is not the most suitable to their child and family.”
Quoted from http://www.agbell.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?p=Choosing_a_Communication_Method .
We need to respect the right that the parents have in raising their deaf children and at the same time, they need to realize that the right comes with responsibilities of which one is to make sure that there is substantive progress in their deaf children. That is one compromise I could offer in that locked room. But then, it is not much different from what Valhallian suggested.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
April 18th, 2009 at 4:59 am
Brian,
We co-exist with the hearing everyday. We work with them. We live with them. We frequent their businesses. We know that this is a hearing world, and if we want to get ahead, we need to co-exist with them as well as possible.
But the problem is, Brian… It’s almost always on their terms. They are the ones in control the majority of the time.
And for you to come in here, and say, you need to co-exist with the hearing and should embrace it… it tells us that you don’t think audism is a problem. That you don’t have a problem with the hearing deciding nearly all of the terms and conditions for us to live with.
Because that’s what this is really all about. Let’s face it – our lives would be better if we could hear and speak. But that’s because of society’s attitude towards us, not necessarily because of us being deaf.
The hearing think their attitude’s just fine, and they don’t understand why we’re so upset. They refuse to stop and examine what could they be doing that’s contributing to our anger.
They don’t want to. It’s too messy and complicated. What do they do instead? They do the same thing that you just did, Brian. They tell us that we just need to co-exist with them, and accept the way things are. And hey, if we become like them, then that’s even better!
That’s why so many of us in the Deaf Community are so angry about CIs. Jean nailed it on the head. It’s not the CI itself that angers us. It’s what it represents, that angers us.
April 18th, 2009 at 4:59 am
Jean and Shel get at an important point: that it is the audism behind the CIs that causes pain in the community. But I question that assumption of motivation.
I think of audism as holding the idea that one person is superior to another simply because of his or her auditory state (regardless of any other abilities) — a bias that both deaf and hearing might manifest.
My daughter is taking piano lessons because I think it could be a wonderful way for her to communicate and express her feelings. I don’t think of people who can’t play piano as lesser human beings. She takes art classes for the same reason: we want to develop every ability possible to open avenues for visual expression/communication. Teaching her how to draw doesn’t mean I think some other child who can’t paint like Picasso is inferior. She is at a signing school for the deaf daily: we want her to be able to use ASL fluently to communicate/express herself. I don’t think people are inferior because they don’t know ASL. My daughter is learning spoken English with the help of her CIs for the same reasons: it’s another very broad channel for communication/expression. I don’t think that people who choose not to have what is admittedly a very frightening surgery (as are ALL surgeries) and depend on a somewhat fragile device and a battery charger for the rest of their lives are inferior.
I think this logic is common to most parents of deaf children — parents are not thinking about YOU and weighing their children against you in some weird balance, they are just thinking about finding avenues of expression and communication for their children.
April 18th, 2009 at 6:14 am
Brian, Deaf Pundit has a point… everyone has his/her viewpoint and some react strongly to BOTH real and perceived audism. We may not always understand but at least we can always validate their opinions, not meaning we’d have to change our perspectives to fit their perspectives… no.
I am more on the similar thinking lines with Candy and Joseph and Ben… I feel that the anger and fear (often anger comes from ignorance and fear) might be contributed to generational thing, since oralism in which many adults (especially born and raised in 20th century) has done some damages to them. So when they discover deaf community that they did not know during their growing up years, it is like coming home for them. And seeing CI technology becoming more normal and with increasing success rates, they naturally feel threatened. So I believe it is more to the fear of losing their “home” which is ASL for them.
I’d like to say one thing… an hour ago, I dropped my daughter off at Color Guard camp at a local high school. Naturally, my daughter is the only deaf girl in the camp and I made it clear to the group that she was deaf and that they’d need to use gestures, blah blah… they accepted what I said, grateful for it. Then two high school girls who made up of Color Guard troop came forward and proudly said that they were taking ASL II under Joe Wheeler (who took over Gina Coleman’s position after her untimely death) and they were thrilled to have her. And her “best friend” from her classroom was there and she was more comfortable with signing in front of me than before.
So it is all about attitude and being willing to associate with hearing people, showing them that signing is cool ;o) Even with CI… I know it is still a controversial issue but in time, it will become mundane like hearing aids.
April 18th, 2009 at 6:47 am
You guys, do check out Ann_C’s latest blog over at
http://ireflections09.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/agbells-asl-position-statement-date/#comment-122
Towards the end, there’s a great story about EVA by Paotie. Something for us all to really think. You can apply the same thinking to things like people who wear Cochlear Implants vs those who prefer ASL.
Have a great day ya’ll looks too nice out for me to be in front of the computer!
April 18th, 2009 at 7:16 am
Hey, I just checked Paotie’s EVA story out. Awesome story.
Gives me a hope that there are more people like us who are cool with both ASL, Deaf Culture, AGBell, oracy, etc… it is all about empowerment via acceptance. Really, enough of increasingly paranoia over audism.
Carpe Diem… be happy… remember we are OK… etc.
Tada, enjoy the sunny day
)
April 18th, 2009 at 7:26 am
I seconded Karen’s motion!
EVA story is very good!
April 18th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Li-Li’s Mom,
You are absolutely right when you say this: I think this logic is common to most parents of deaf children — parents are not thinking about YOU and weighing their children against you in some weird balance, they are just thinking about finding avenues of expression and communication for their children.
And ironically, I think that’s another reason why some in the Deaf Community are angry. You’ll never see them admit it out loud though. But it makes sense when you really examine it.
You and other parents, when you were fighting for your children, were not thinking about anyone else. Only your own child and ensuring the child had as many options as possible. And that’s had a cumulative effect, resulting in the children today having a better life than the previous generations.
However, several questions arise from this: What about the previous generations? And what if something happens down the line, that will impact future generations’ quality of life?
Basically, many of us are shut out. We’re left sitting on the sidelines. Our experiences and knowledge aren’t valued or being listened to.
By no means is it your or any other parents’ job to take up the Deaf Community’s cause… It’s hard enough already being a parent.
However, imagine if enough parents recognized that there is a problem with hearing people’s attitudes toward deafness, and set out to do something about it… instead of just necessarily focusing on only what’s the best for their child.
Don’t you think that it would lead to things changing for the better at an increased pace, not just for your own child, but also for the Deaf Community in general?
April 18th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
DP, point duly noted.
But hearing parents of deaf children don’t have the Deaf culture perspective as you and others do. Yes, some of them who implement ASL and immerse their deaf child in Deaf culture may have some understanding of the culture. However, these very same hearing parents may be leery of what often happens to hearing parents when they speak about Deaf culture to the hearing– they end up getting discredited for their efforts by the very people they’re trying to help! How do we get around that?
April 18th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Deaf Pundit, you brought up quite a valid comment and question at the end. I would agree with your assessment. It is people like Li-li’s mom and Miss Kat’s mom, for example, that do exactly what you mentioned, otherwise they wouldn’t be blogging or commenting on blogs.
There are probably several reason why others may not set out to do something about it. They may not have the time as its already a full load in itself providing and caring for a family, they may not read blogs nor know how to set up blogs. If they did, they may be in fear of being bashed.
April 18th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
A lot of comments here. I’m not ignoring you. It’s just that I am sick. I’ll be back and read the comments later when I am feeling better.
I am glad that there are excellent discussions going on here.
April 18th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Ann_C and Valhallian,
Yeah. Both of you are right. And I don’t really have an answer to that. That’s something that the Deaf Community as a whole needs to face and discuss.
For me personally, I think it requires us to be more open and willing to educate the hearing parents (in a nonjudgmental and peaceful manner) about how necessary it is, for the children’s mental and emotional health, that all of us make an effort to change society’s attitudes about deafness.
Then the hearing parents in turn, can educate the other hearing, from their perspective. It takes a concerted, cooperative effort.
Just like Ben Vess, I believe, pointed out somewhere else on the blogs – whites were part of the Civil Rights Movement. They were willing to sit down, listen and analyze what exactly was wrong. Then they turned around and backed up the African-Americans. They did not lead the movement, but they did lend tremendous support. The whites said, “I do not speak for that community, but here’s why *I* think racism is wrong.”
I don’t see why it couldn’t happen with us. Someday, that is.
April 18th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
How about us deafies educating other deafies about the attitudes of all spectrums of deafness?
I have met MORE hearings that backed up deaf people than not. Why should this responsibility only lie with the hearing parents of deaf children?
DP, can you explain why you said that? I mean, have you met a hearing parent of a deaf child that shines a bad view of deaf people?
April 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Candy beat me to the point, she is exactly right, its not only the hearing parents that need the educating, but also deaf people as well.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Candy,
Yes, I have met numerous hearing who have a bad view of deaf people.
In fact, I know one deaf person whose father said once that if he ever learned sign language, the father would hang him.
April 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I’m back and now trying to catch up
Oh, language assessment either in English, in ASL or both, depending what language the c.i. child is using. Surely the mainstreamed programs use these assessments to guage the linguistic progress of the c.i. kids, right?
Shel, the classroom dynamics are changing, not just in the mainstreamed programs but also in the Deaf schools, due to the growing popularity of c.i. It had come to my attention that segregations between the Deaf kids and c.i. kids are being practiced, not only in the mainstreamed programs, but also in the Deaf schools. This practice needs to be condemned.
April 19th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Aye Mishka, you’re right on the segregation part. I recall a deaf mother of a deaf child that while all deaf students ride a school bus that actually makes two stops in front of the school. It drops off the signers first and then it moves like 50 feet and then drops off the CI users/ That is totally segregation and oughtta be stopped.
April 19th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
MZ and Valhalian,
I very strongly believe in pluralisn; therefore, I am not happy to hear about segregation. The segregation fosters more audism. Deaf Pundit has mentioned “civil rights movement” somewhere on this blog. In view of what Dr. Elisabeth Zinser had said to ABC’s Nightline Ted Koppel in 1988 that she had no idea that the deaf community had many problemns, I like DP’s idea and think that the civil rights movement should be formed. Before doing so, the deaf community needs to draw a transparent message.
April 20th, 2009 at 6:10 am
Aye Jean, I think a deaf version of the civil rights movement is a fantastic idea, but people also need to realize this we could become a much stronger and powerful force in such a movement if we actually had unity among us and are receptive of all communications modes whatsoever as opposed to bashing people based on communication mode preferences.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:31 am
Misha has this vision where all groups of Deaf people including oral deaf people and c.i people, will be participating in this civil rights movement. This way, this will attract the parents of c.i. kids, which is now a sizeable population.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
[...] Cochlear Implants Are Oppressive To Some? [...]
August 12th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
This is so interesting….why not ask a kid who has had a CI almost all her life?
Hi, I’m a soon-to-be ninth grader and have been implanted since I was almost four. My sibling has also been implanted since she was less than two. The Cochlear Implant is a part of who we are.
Though we initially attended oral schools, both of us have been mainstreamed for as long as I can remember. The mainstream has also made us the only kids with CI’s at school. Though there have been some difficult times, for the most part, my experiences are positive.
Just recently, I joined a First Tee program sponsered by our Deaf Action Center. Though we’re not typical DARS kids, my mom thought it would be a good experience. I felt a lot of compassion for the other kids, they had difficulty communicating with the coaches because they used SEE. I learned a lot from that experience, mainly my gratitude for choices made for me. I am grateful for not needing “additional” help such as an interpreter. I am also grateful for feeling like I was more integrated within our society than the other kids.
Being the only person with a CI at school has made me teach others to become sensitive towards hearing loss. It’s not easy, but there is a need to educate even the teachers. I’m excited because this year, there will be a couple other kids with CI’s who will attend my high school. One of them will be in the same orchestra group as I. I know who I am and what I want.
This past Summer, I had the opportunity to go on a three-day re-enactment of the pioneer trail for my church. We were supposed to walk pushing handcarts for 12-15 miles a day. My mom was totally opposed to this because of my processor. She was worried about damage to the equipment. I refused to not wear it—I don’t like being deaf! Some church leaders offered to have an adult “shadow” me but I refused. I am a teen like all the rest. I did not need special treatment, I wanted equal opportunity to attend. Not wearing my processor is not an option, except when I’m in swim team. My processor has helped form who I am: a reader, a student, a music lover and an athlete. I needed to wear it and finally compromised with mom by getting a gortex cover for the processor. Though I was the only hearing impaired person in a group of 300 teens that did this trek, I SURVIVED! What made me most proud of this experience iw that it proved to me and to everyone else that if I could endure the hardships that we went through in this trek, I could definitely survive anything in life! I got up on the last day and gave my testimony to all 300+people who “survived” the trek (many people dropped out because they could not endure the circumstances). I told them that though many of them were “forced” to attend this rite of passage, I was looking forward to it and actually had to fight to attend. I also told them that I knew that no matter what the circumstances, that I would always be able to walk shoulder-to-shoulder with any of them because I am capable.
I am fourteen. I am a teen who happens to use a cochlear implant. I’m no different than anyone else.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:57 am
I have been deaf all my life. I am now 50 yrs olds and I am still happier . Person who are deaF ..this is always BEAUTIFUL because it’s God gifts to the indiviuals . God knew you before you were born in Psalms 139. That’s the reason why I acepted who I am that His part of me.That’s also my point of never accepted to have CI. If God wanted you to be deaf ..accept it for who you are.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:29 am
What a terrible mess the Deaf community has gotten itself into, but it isn’t the Deaf people’s fault.
The problem is not with the Cochlear Implants (CI) as a tool but rather with the inequality and perspective that is unavoidable with it. All of this is perpetuated by the medical view that Deaf people are broken and that they need to be fixed in order to become one of “us”. This is permeated deep in American society ever since the days of eugenics and sterilization during the 19th century.
Imagine yourself being Deaf. You are able to communicate in American Sign Language, you have a strong Deaf identity, you have a culture, and you are part of a community that is tight knit. When you’re looking across the divide, what you see looks appalling and threatens the integrity of your belief that being Deaf is perfectly normal and acceptable for a human being. You can do anything but hear…
You see the medical perspective– you’re less human because you cannot hear or speak like hearing people. Then you see those who got CI’s but failed to reach what society expects of them– “normal” hearing and speech. They become failures as a human being– rather than blaming society for expecting them to reach that ideal, it has a detrimental psychological impact on the individual and the family members who underwent extensive speech training. They think, “Did I work hard enough, did I do everything that I could have done, isn’t there something else out there that might work better, or maybe there’s some hope in the future that I’ll have perfect hearing and speech.” They are undergoing the grieving process and will never really recover from it.
Then you have a hierarchy created as a result of what society imposed on Deaf people. It starts with “normal” hearing people on the top of the hierarchy. Then it goes down the hierarchy based on the person’s hearing and speaking ability. A person’s ability to think and learn doesn’t matter as much.
Even though a person might be profoundly Deaf and not able to speak at all, that person might have a Ph.D. in his field. Yet, that Ph.D. is not respected equally with a hearing person who also has a Ph.D. A Deaf person has to prove more to society that a hearing person would only have to do the minimum to accomplish. There’s a great injustice being done in the name of hearing and speech.
Then there are organizations controlled by hearing people who have a lot to profit by promoting CI’s, oral education, AVT, and anything but American Sign Language and a healthy Deaf identity. They’re like the cosmetic industry taking advantage of ugly people or those with low self esteem about their looks– they will never promote that everyone is beautiful no matter what because it will weaken their industry.
The truth is concealed about the success rate of CI’s even after repeated requests for data and research by an independent firm. Those organizations spread myths which are harmful and insulting to Deaf people. Where are the Deaf people in those organizations? For instance, more than half of AG Bell Association’s members are professionals who have so much to benefit from perpetuating oral education, CI’s, AVT, and all those other inventions which were created because parents of Deaf children are so desperate to have their children speak and hear just like them. Another 40% of AG Bell Association’s members are hearing parents of Deaf children. That leaves less than 10% of the members being Deaf adults.
So when you wonder why there is so much controversy surrounding CI’s, just remember that it symbolizes a system of oppression and injustice that destroys a Deaf person’s healthy identity. It destroys the relationship between a parent and the child.
December 13th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
I just stumbled upon this blog. Even though it’s quite old I thought I would say something from the heart of a hearing mother.
My children are beautiful, they don’t need to hear. My children are happy, they don’t need hearing for that either. Most of all my children are healthy,hearing or deaf, it doesn’t matter.
Some parents would risk the health of their cildren for the possibility of a short list of shallow benefits. Talking on the phone, watching tv, listening to music…
For me, the health of my children will always come first, but sadly, some are more interested in their child seeming normal.
All cultural factors aside, exposing a child to the risks of a cochlear implant is abuse in my eyes.