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	<title>Comments on: Double Standards Between C.I. Children and Deaf Children?</title>
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		<title>By: Mishkazena</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10131</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishkazena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10131</guid>
		<description>Obviously many people don&#039;t realize that Deaf parents of Deaf children are treated differently from their hearing peers. Hearing parents are respected for the decisions they have made regarding their Deaf children. However Deaf parents are not afforded the same treatment, even when surgical procedures are involved. 
 
I guess it is the same with white people and African American people. I wasn&#039;t aware that certain Deaf African Americans were treated differently until they started telling me stories. At first I was startled, then later when I started paying close attention, I began to notice things that I was oblivious in the past.  It was the same thing with the treatment of Deaf and Hearing parents. I didn&#039;t notice until Deaf parents started sharing stories with me, then once I became fully aware, I could see the differences myself.  
 
Sometimes we don&#039;t notice things until they are pointed out to us first.  It makes sense. We tend not to notice things if they don&#039;t affect us personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously many people don&#8217;t realize that Deaf parents of Deaf children are treated differently from their hearing peers. Hearing parents are respected for the decisions they have made regarding their Deaf children. However Deaf parents are not afforded the same treatment, even when surgical procedures are involved. </p>
<p>I guess it is the same with white people and African American people. I wasn&#8217;t aware that certain Deaf African Americans were treated differently until they started telling me stories. At first I was startled, then later when I started paying close attention, I began to notice things that I was oblivious in the past.  It was the same thing with the treatment of Deaf and Hearing parents. I didn&#8217;t notice until Deaf parents started sharing stories with me, then once I became fully aware, I could see the differences myself.  </p>
<p>Sometimes we don&#8217;t notice things until they are pointed out to us first.  It makes sense. We tend not to notice things if they don&#8217;t affect us personally.</p>
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		<title>By: jodi</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10103</link>
		<dc:creator>jodi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10103</guid>
		<description>Highly opinionated people exist in all walks of life, not just the Deaf walk. People tell you how you should live your life, how to raise your kids and make ridiculous unfounded criticisms...ALWAYS! The ci issue is a tough one, because surgical intervention is involved, therefore I rarely have heard examples of people forcing the ci on others. Methodologies are a different issue--don&#039;t confuse the two. Any time surgery is involved, people are more hesitant by nature to say, &quot;DO THE SURGERY!&quot; God forbid something happens to the child despite the safe technology and procedures available nowadays, wouldn&#039;t want to be the voice responsible for that call. 

It is the parents who choose. Now the methodologies debate is up for grabs as to who knows best. My take is that it&#039;s a personal family decision, but we already know that.

Li-Li&#039;s mom...you wrote a beautiful comment- as always- and I greatly appreciated it.

Interesting post, Mishka- I&#039;m sorry I arrived late..
Hugs,
Jodi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Highly opinionated people exist in all walks of life, not just the Deaf walk. People tell you how you should live your life, how to raise your kids and make ridiculous unfounded criticisms&#8230;ALWAYS! The ci issue is a tough one, because surgical intervention is involved, therefore I rarely have heard examples of people forcing the ci on others. Methodologies are a different issue&#8211;don&#8217;t confuse the two. Any time surgery is involved, people are more hesitant by nature to say, &#8220;DO THE SURGERY!&#8221; God forbid something happens to the child despite the safe technology and procedures available nowadays, wouldn&#8217;t want to be the voice responsible for that call. </p>
<p>It is the parents who choose. Now the methodologies debate is up for grabs as to who knows best. My take is that it&#8217;s a personal family decision, but we already know that.</p>
<p>Li-Li&#8217;s mom&#8230;you wrote a beautiful comment- as always- and I greatly appreciated it.</p>
<p>Interesting post, Mishka- I&#8217;m sorry I arrived late..<br />
Hugs,<br />
Jodi</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10079</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10079</guid>
		<description>Li-Li&#039;s Mom - good to see you around again! You said something that I found very interesting and would like to respond to... you wrote: &lt;i&gt;Also, quite honestly, there are a number of blogs where I’ve come to realize that my voice might undermine the person I would hope to support.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t quite understand how you think by speaking out on blogs like MZ&#039;s undermines the blogger&#039;s position.

I think by having parents like you come on here and sharing your views, it actually helps. It shows that you guys ARE listening to the Deaf community, and we can engage in dialogue. We all have experiences, ideas, viewpoints to bring to the table. And ultimately, what we talk about here on the blogs, affect *your* children. 

These children are part of the Deaf Community, but they are not our children. They are yours. I feel safe in saying that for many of us in the Deaf Community, we would like to continue this kind of dialogue, so we can learn from each other, so your children can benefit from this. That way, when they become old enough and comfortable enough, they can then participate more fully with the Deaf Community, and make positive contributions, just like they will with society at large. 

And yes, there are many topics that are sensitive, but I think it&#039;s worth addressing. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s possible for just us Deaf to address these issues alone, and nor should we. 

So in that vein, I think the issue MZ raises here in her blog is a very valid concern. Deaf parents do get bashed for their decisions. Heck, when I was a child, my own mother who is hearing, got bashed for her decisions on how to educate me. It&#039;s very real thing, but it&#039;s certainly a sensitive topic, and not very many want to address sensitive/uncomfortable topics except for hardliners and a lone few moderates like me and MZ, it seems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Li-Li&#8217;s Mom &#8211; good to see you around again! You said something that I found very interesting and would like to respond to&#8230; you wrote: <i>Also, quite honestly, there are a number of blogs where I’ve come to realize that my voice might undermine the person I would hope to support.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t quite understand how you think by speaking out on blogs like MZ&#8217;s undermines the blogger&#8217;s position.</p>
<p>I think by having parents like you come on here and sharing your views, it actually helps. It shows that you guys ARE listening to the Deaf community, and we can engage in dialogue. We all have experiences, ideas, viewpoints to bring to the table. And ultimately, what we talk about here on the blogs, affect *your* children. </p>
<p>These children are part of the Deaf Community, but they are not our children. They are yours. I feel safe in saying that for many of us in the Deaf Community, we would like to continue this kind of dialogue, so we can learn from each other, so your children can benefit from this. That way, when they become old enough and comfortable enough, they can then participate more fully with the Deaf Community, and make positive contributions, just like they will with society at large. </p>
<p>And yes, there are many topics that are sensitive, but I think it&#8217;s worth addressing. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible for just us Deaf to address these issues alone, and nor should we. </p>
<p>So in that vein, I think the issue MZ raises here in her blog is a very valid concern. Deaf parents do get bashed for their decisions. Heck, when I was a child, my own mother who is hearing, got bashed for her decisions on how to educate me. It&#8217;s very real thing, but it&#8217;s certainly a sensitive topic, and not very many want to address sensitive/uncomfortable topics except for hardliners and a lone few moderates like me and MZ, it seems.</p>
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		<title>By: Shel</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10076</link>
		<dc:creator>Shel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10076</guid>
		<description>Amy is correct that Deaf parents are pressured to implant their Deaf child or children.  The story that DeafPundit told about is one example.

I have a Deaf acquaintance who is the mother of a Deaf child.  A few years ago, when this child was an infant, she had professionals who work in an agency responsible for infant screening and referrals to audiologists, therapists, etc come to her house several times touting the virtues of cochlear implants and the importance of AVT for &quot;language development.&quot; Each time, the mother turned them away.   I must tell you the pressure was intense for this mother. This mother comes of a family of mostly Deaf people.  

To these hearing professionals, this mother was  dooming her to a lifetime of disability.  Yet, when a Hearing mother chooses to 
not implant her child, that is called choice.  She would be supported with whatever decisions she makes.  
However,  the Deaf mother is condemned if she doesn&#039;t conform with the Hearing expectation that she do everything to help her child fit into the Hearing world. 

Not many outside the Deaf community would have defended this 
Deaf woman&#039;s choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy is correct that Deaf parents are pressured to implant their Deaf child or children.  The story that DeafPundit told about is one example.</p>
<p>I have a Deaf acquaintance who is the mother of a Deaf child.  A few years ago, when this child was an infant, she had professionals who work in an agency responsible for infant screening and referrals to audiologists, therapists, etc come to her house several times touting the virtues of cochlear implants and the importance of AVT for &#8220;language development.&#8221; Each time, the mother turned them away.   I must tell you the pressure was intense for this mother. This mother comes of a family of mostly Deaf people.  </p>
<p>To these hearing professionals, this mother was  dooming her to a lifetime of disability.  Yet, when a Hearing mother chooses to<br />
not implant her child, that is called choice.  She would be supported with whatever decisions she makes.<br />
However,  the Deaf mother is condemned if she doesn&#8217;t conform with the Hearing expectation that she do everything to help her child fit into the Hearing world. </p>
<p>Not many outside the Deaf community would have defended this<br />
Deaf woman&#8217;s choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Mayes</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10074</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Mayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10074</guid>
		<description>Dianrez, in other words, follow the child&#039;s lead.

Well-written comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianrez, in other words, follow the child&#8217;s lead.</p>
<p>Well-written comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Double Standards Or Wot? &#124; i.Mephisto:i.Muse &#38; i.Amuse!</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10071</link>
		<dc:creator>Double Standards Or Wot? &#124; i.Mephisto:i.Muse &#38; i.Amuse!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10071</guid>
		<description>[...] Zena asks if there are double standards at play in her article, Double Standards Between C.I. Children and Deaf Children?. It is a very valid [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zena asks if there are double standards at play in her article, Double Standards Between C.I. Children and Deaf Children?. It is a very valid [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dianrez</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10068</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianrez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10068</guid>
		<description>With every choice having both pros and cons, there can be any number of &quot;right choices&quot; or &quot;wrong choices&quot; later on for the deaf kid to tell his parents about. 

Highly intelligent children with no other problems tend to do well no matter what methods were used. (And end up as poster children for that method!)

Children with additional challenges, such as dyslexia or uninvolved parents or acoustic complications, tend to do better with specific methods addressed to these needs and employing  their strengths more than usual.

Also, childrens&#039; needs change with growth, so an approach that was great at age 3 may no longer be right at age 7. Ongoing attention to their immediate needs and constant evaluation of their benefits need to be done.

An example: when children reach their teens, the sophistication and complexity of their intellectual skills explodes. Suddenly the language of the home, if it was a restricted mode, becomes no longer adequate for their needs. 

Re-evaluation might result in introducing sign in preparation for college studies at a Deaf university. Or it might consider transferring to a private school in order to have smaller classes in a pure oral/aural environment. Or it might include extracurricular groups with area Deaf students.

Keeping open all possibilities at every stage of the child&#039;s growth is essential. Support of both parents and children in finding these change points is also essential; something we all need to work on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With every choice having both pros and cons, there can be any number of &#8220;right choices&#8221; or &#8220;wrong choices&#8221; later on for the deaf kid to tell his parents about. </p>
<p>Highly intelligent children with no other problems tend to do well no matter what methods were used. (And end up as poster children for that method!)</p>
<p>Children with additional challenges, such as dyslexia or uninvolved parents or acoustic complications, tend to do better with specific methods addressed to these needs and employing  their strengths more than usual.</p>
<p>Also, childrens&#8217; needs change with growth, so an approach that was great at age 3 may no longer be right at age 7. Ongoing attention to their immediate needs and constant evaluation of their benefits need to be done.</p>
<p>An example: when children reach their teens, the sophistication and complexity of their intellectual skills explodes. Suddenly the language of the home, if it was a restricted mode, becomes no longer adequate for their needs. </p>
<p>Re-evaluation might result in introducing sign in preparation for college studies at a Deaf university. Or it might consider transferring to a private school in order to have smaller classes in a pure oral/aural environment. Or it might include extracurricular groups with area Deaf students.</p>
<p>Keeping open all possibilities at every stage of the child&#8217;s growth is essential. Support of both parents and children in finding these change points is also essential; something we all need to work on.</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf educator</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10064</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf educator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10064</guid>
		<description>The movie, Sound and Fury was a really sad one, the deaf parents didn&#039;t get much support. In fact, they were vilified for making a bad choice for their deaf daughter. Had it been hearing parents, I&#039;m sure a lot of people would be in tears, feeling &quot;oooh ahh&quot; the happy ending that the deaf child can hear. 

Deaf people are the most misunderstood group!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The movie, Sound and Fury was a really sad one, the deaf parents didn&#8217;t get much support. In fact, they were vilified for making a bad choice for their deaf daughter. Had it been hearing parents, I&#8217;m sure a lot of people would be in tears, feeling &#8220;oooh ahh&#8221; the happy ending that the deaf child can hear. </p>
<p>Deaf people are the most misunderstood group!</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf educator</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10063</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf educator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10063</guid>
		<description>Yeah I didn&#039;t feel comfortable about cochlear implants until I started working with deaf children in a school. There I noticed that almost everyone in the school has cochlear implant. You would be amazed at how much they can work -- they are so much better than hearing aids! And I would think they are much more comfortable to wear than hearing aids as some of them don&#039;t have earmolds. And you can go in for mapping to make sure the cochlear implants are working for you. So there are a lot of benefits in it. However, it does not work for all deaf children, I&#039;ve seen some CI failures, some of them had to have repeat surgeries to implant new CI models. 

I think what triggers a lot of deaf people is that back in the oralism days, we were literally forced to wear these bulky hearing aids and endure those FM with heavy earphones, thus making our ears burn when they overheated. So when they see a deaf baby or child implanted with CI, the feelings come back and it is as if people are constantly trying to mold deaf people into normal hearing beings with all kinds of uncomfortable devices. 

To be honest with you, the cochlear implant devices are the most ugliest thing I ever seen, it is unfortunate that they have to be so ugly. Yikes! But I do know that they work very well for some deaf people. 

ALso deaf and hearing parents feel the peer pressure to have their baby implanted by the medical society. The doctors have a way of convincing parents to implant their deaf babies, the smooth talking language and the gentle way of persuading parents into it. If they don&#039;t do it, they are considered as &quot;odd&quot; or whatever. SO I think it is a parent peer thing.

Miss Kat&#039;s parents are making difficult choices but Miss Kat will let them know when she gets older if the choices were the right ones or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I didn&#8217;t feel comfortable about cochlear implants until I started working with deaf children in a school. There I noticed that almost everyone in the school has cochlear implant. You would be amazed at how much they can work &#8212; they are so much better than hearing aids! And I would think they are much more comfortable to wear than hearing aids as some of them don&#8217;t have earmolds. And you can go in for mapping to make sure the cochlear implants are working for you. So there are a lot of benefits in it. However, it does not work for all deaf children, I&#8217;ve seen some CI failures, some of them had to have repeat surgeries to implant new CI models. </p>
<p>I think what triggers a lot of deaf people is that back in the oralism days, we were literally forced to wear these bulky hearing aids and endure those FM with heavy earphones, thus making our ears burn when they overheated. So when they see a deaf baby or child implanted with CI, the feelings come back and it is as if people are constantly trying to mold deaf people into normal hearing beings with all kinds of uncomfortable devices. </p>
<p>To be honest with you, the cochlear implant devices are the most ugliest thing I ever seen, it is unfortunate that they have to be so ugly. Yikes! But I do know that they work very well for some deaf people. </p>
<p>ALso deaf and hearing parents feel the peer pressure to have their baby implanted by the medical society. The doctors have a way of convincing parents to implant their deaf babies, the smooth talking language and the gentle way of persuading parents into it. If they don&#8217;t do it, they are considered as &#8220;odd&#8221; or whatever. SO I think it is a parent peer thing.</p>
<p>Miss Kat&#8217;s parents are making difficult choices but Miss Kat will let them know when she gets older if the choices were the right ones or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Li-Li's Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2009/02/19/double-standards-between-ci-children-and-deaf-children/comment-page-1/#comment-10062</link>
		<dc:creator>Li-Li's Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mishkazena.com/?p=1667#comment-10062</guid>
		<description>Miss Kat&#039;s Mom!   That was both terribly poignant and hysterically funny, all in one breath.  I&#039;m still laughing at the thought of you winding up that roundhouse while watching the movie ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miss Kat&#8217;s Mom!   That was both terribly poignant and hysterically funny, all in one breath.  I&#8217;m still laughing at the thought of you winding up that roundhouse while watching the movie &#8230;</p>
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