AGBell an ASL supporter? Dangers of Taken Out of Context
Jean Boutcher announced due to her reasoning of a quote taken out of context, I am implying that AGBell was a pro ASL supporter.
In her blog: MZ, In your blog entry, Against ASL and Deaf Culture, you say,
“If someone is fluent in ASL, how can using the language show the person biased? I would think if one is against ASL, the person won’t be using this language at all. Would that make more sense?”
If I follow your logic (vid.supra), you claim that Alexander Graham Bell (AGB) was not biased against ASL and Deaf Culture as long as he used ASL. AGB was fluent in the American Sign Language and wanted all deaf people to be monolingualistic. He wanted deaf people to be sterilised in order to end deaf people as a variety of the human race (he was an eugenicist). Therefore, the claim that Bell or the like was not biased is invalid. http://jboutcher.blogspot.com/2008/11/in-responce-to-mzs-blog-post.html
It’s extremely unfortunate that Ms. Boutcher didn’t quote the whole post. I’ve left two clarifying comments in her blog, but so far she hadn’t published them, even though she had published other comments afterwards. In other words, I am forced to clarify in my blog. This development with her post and her failure to publish my comments for clarification appear to contradict the blogger’s previous comments on being true to academic integrity and literary honesty.
First of all, Ms. Boutcher and others, in my post, “Against ASL and Deaf Culture”, I was talking about culturally Deaf people, not hearing people. I have also listed few criteria, not one criterion alone. Please do not take one paragraph from the whole post and twist it to imply something else. Your post was published four hours after I published mine, and two hours after a reader recognized that I was talking about Deaf people and me already commenting about AGBell being unsupportive of ASL and Deaf Culture.
I’ve covered AGBell and AGBell Association several times in my blog, including one indicating that he was behind the eugenic movements of America during the early 1900’s that Hitler admired and eventually adopted as a model for his Holocaust. http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/03/30/agbs-shameful-legacy-hitler/. My stance against AGBell is already well known.
Now I hope people will better understand what the previous post was all about. I added several questions to each criterion as a guide for people to ponder, but none were intended to be taken alone without the other criteria. If there is any uncertainty, please do feel free to ask in the comment section or contact me via e mail MishkaZena@aol.com. As some can see, other readers did ask for clarifications regarding my post in the comment section. This unfortunate incident with the twisting of my post and my follow up, clarifying my original post would have been easily avoided. Have a nice day! 
My post yesterday “Against ASL and Deaf Culture”: http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/11/24/against-asl-and-deaf-culture/
P.S. It’s been over one day since I left my clarifying comments at Jean Boutcher’s blog. She had published eleven comments after mine, but she neglected to publish mine and others who tried to clarify my post. This is an example of blatant academic dishonesty, indicating the misrepresentation was done on purpose. This isn’t constructive to the unity of the Deaf Community. MZ
Jean Boutcher announced due to her reasoning of a quote taken out of context, I am implying that AGBell was a pro ASL supporter.
In her blog: MZ, In your blog entry, Against ASL and Deaf Culture, you say,
“If someone is fluent in ASL, how can using the language show the person biased? I would think if one is against ASL, the person won’t be using this language at all. Would that make more sense?”
If I follow your logic (vid.supra), you claim that Alexander Graham Bell (AGB) was not biased against ASL and Deaf Culture as long as he used ASL. AGB was fluent in the American Sign Language and wanted all deaf people to be monolingualistic. He wanted deaf people to be sterilised in order to end deaf people as a variety of the human race (he was an eugenicist). Therefore, the claim that Bell or the like was not biased is invalid. http://jboutcher.blogspot.com/2008/11/in-responce-to-mzs-blog-post.html
It’s extremely unfortunate that Ms. Boutcher didn’t quote the whole post. I’ve left two clarifying comments in her blog, but so far she hadn’t published them, even though she had published other comments afterwards. In other words, I am forced to clarify in my blog. This development with her post and her failure to publish my comments for clarification appear to contradict the blogger’s previous comments on being true to academic integrity and literary honesty.
First of all, Ms. Boutcher and others, in my post, “Against ASL and Deaf Culture”, I was talking about culturally Deaf people, not hearing people. I have also listed few criteria, not one criterion alone. Please do not take one paragraph from the whole post and twist it to imply something else. Your post was published four hours after I published mine, and two hours after a reader recognized that I was talking about Deaf people and me already commenting about AGBell being unsupportive of ASL and Deaf Culture.
I’ve covered AGBell and AGBell Association several times in my blog, including one indicating that he was behind the eugenic movements of America during the early 1900’s that Hitler admired and eventually adopted as a model for his Holocaust. http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/03/30/agbs-shameful-legacy-hitler/. My stance against AGBell is already well known.
Now I hope people will better understand what the previous post was all about. I added several questions to each criterion as a guide for people to ponder, but none were intended to be taken alone without the other criteria. If there is any uncertainty, please do feel free to ask in the comment section or contact me via e mail MishkaZena@aol.com. As some can see, other readers did ask for clarifications regarding my post in the comment section. This unfortunate incident with the twisting of my post and my follow up, clarifying my original post would have been easily avoided. Have a nice day!
My post yesterday “Against ASL and Deaf Culture”: http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/11/24/against-asl-and-deaf-culture/
P.S. It’s been over one day since I left my clarifying comments at Jean Boutcher’s blog. She had published eleven comments after mine, but she neglected to publish mine and others who tried to clarify my post. This is an example of blatant academic dishonesty, indicating the misrepresentation was done on purpose. This isn’t constructive to the unity of the Deaf Community. MZ
November 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Excellent clarification1
i’m hoping it’s just a minor misunderstanding…after all, there hasn’t been a new comment over at her blog since yesterday…
mwahs
November 25th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Ms. Boutcher is an academician. She knows the value of quoting in context and double-checking. A prudent person would ask for clarification first, either in the comment section, like you and others did, or via e mails. For some reason, she didn’t. Then she didn’t publish my comments which would have clarify my post. She didn’t publish comments from other people explaining the post either while she continued to publish other comments afterwards. I find that revealing.
I had hoped she would have gotten the misunderstanding, and either publish my comments or at least tactifully remove her post. She had few chances, but she chose not to educate her readers that there had been an error done as an ethical academician would do.
So she left me no choice but to clarify it in my post.
For your information, no, Jean hadn’t always been supportive of me. For some time, she had been attacking me without any provocation. It’s very sad to see someone doing this for apparently no reason.
I would appreciate it if you find out what’s going on before jumping into unfounded conclusions. It appears there are many things going on that you are oblivious to.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Perhaps first communicating privately should be a rule of Deaf Cyberspace whenever a misunderstanding comes up.
This could avoid embarrassment and unnecessary public arguments and belated clarifications.
No one of us is perfect or 100% objective, as many bloggers will tell us after having to apologize in public for jumping the gun or using intemperate language. We are human and feet frequently find their way to the mouth.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
As Mishka has requested several times, ADDRESS the topic.
November 25th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
This backstabbing is tedious business, folks.
It’s tiresome scrolling thru the bomb debris to get to the few gems of objective and intelligent commentary.
Seriously.
November 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Wow. I had to put this in moderation.
Sheri, you were out of line. I do not appreciate your tone. For once, I can understand why Penny reacted like she did. Now I have to delete many comments.
I am taking deep breaths here.
Please, everybody, address to the topic, not to the person.
November 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Mishka-
I read very carefully in your recent blog and here. I also read Jean Boutcher’s blog which she responded to your topic. Your recent topic was very clear and you did not mention about hearing people but Deaf people only. It looks like some readers misunderstood your topic in the first place. As to address to the topic…I will leave this alone because Penny is really in a bad mood. I do not want to make you to delete my message again. Smile. My bad mood has nothing to do with you.
November 25th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
*raises both eyebrows* Apparently I missed the show here. At any rate, I think this clarification was appropriate, considering the circumstances.
November 25th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Let you know I already vlog called “Warning: Alexander Graham Bell can Fool You!” Go look at DVTV link: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/30226/
Thank you for accepting my comment!
November 25th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Shawn, I am not aware of any Deaf AGBell member who is acting like a mole for AGBell. Are we missing something here?
November 25th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
AGBell was Prez of International Egenic in 1921 just one year before AG Bell died in 1922! He’s a big FOOL! {seesmic_video:{“url_thumbnail”:{“value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/ijQQEex5Fl_th1.jpg”}”title”:{“value”:”AGBell was Prez of International Egenic in 1921 just one year before AG Bell died in 1922! He’s a big FOOL! ”}”videoUri”:{“value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/7DnCoFuJUi”}}}
November 25th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
“AGBell was Prez of International Egenic in 1921″
International? That was a big difference from being the president of a national eugenics society compared to an international one. This is news to me. Thanks for the information, Shawn. I’ll check this tidbit out.
I don’t think there is any mole here. A lot of ASLers with oral backgrounds that I know recognize the value of ASL with deaf babies and children. Perhaps you know someone that I am not aware.
Happy Thanksgiving, Shawn
November 25th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Is this what Shawn meant?
In 1921, he was the honorary president of the Second International Congress of Eugenics held under the auspices of the American Museum of Natural History in New York.
This is quoted by:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell
November 25th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Sorry I mean quote..I meant that I got the information from wikipedia.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Here it goes again…I said I did not mean quote…
November 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
ASLRisen, just curious: what would a “mole” do? Everything we say is in public view in cyberspace; it would be pretty easy pickings for anyone interested in providing information to AGBell. In fact, there would be no need to have moles in the first place!
Seriously, most of the problems with the oral philosophy are now in the past. Methods of hearing testing, hearing aids, even implants, are more humane and child-friendly today. As MZ said, those who favor oral approaches tend to acknowledge the value of ASL; much different than in the past when even mentioning ASL would get your hands slapped.
If we need to demonize anybody, AGBell is handy, and so are people who uphold the AVT approach all the way to never acknowledging ASL at all. How much fun it is to be scared of boogeymen! But what good will it do? Our focus should instead be on stronger public education and balancing out misguided ideas of pure oral philosophies.
November 25th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
mole???? {seesmic_video:{“url_thumbnail”:{“value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/9jDlfdZpBI_th1.jpg”}”title”:{“value”:”mole???? ”}”videoUri”:{“value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/mXAVLE7hoc”}}}
November 25th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Hi Shawn the word, mole, has several meanings. It stands for an animal, but it also means a spy.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
yes that!!! {seesmic_video:{“url_thumbnail”:{“value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/ltVBjTnFJD_th1.jpg”}”title”:{“value”:”yes that!!! ”}”videoUri”:{“value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/vZGeqDqD1t”}}}
November 26th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Shawn, I don’t know anyone who is a ’spy’ for AGBell Association. However, I am aware that they do read our blogs and watch our vlogs. We found out that part during the DBC rally at Arlington VA two summers ago.
November 26th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Well, from what I have been reading and watching commentors saying some of AGBell people attended DBC conference are open to ideas of ASL.
Also, CI are getting smaller and smaller, soon to be obsolute and replaced with newer technology which are currently in research stages that are showing promises.
Therefore, perhaps consider working with AGBell people to educate that ASL is being used by hearing parents for their hearing babies therefore we can apply ASL to deaf babies and young children.
Reason: There are wide variety of hearing losses and research has shown that the worse hearing loss a child has, higher failure rate in oral and speech while slight hearing loss have higher success rate at oral and speech. So, it is generally a good idea to include BOTH available options to parents of deaf child.
By doing gentle approach in educating AGBell people to work with NAD and deaf community.
We need to forget the pain from the “past” abuses by oral schools since AGBell did not encourage abuse by teachers and audiologist back in old days. Today teachers and audiologist cannot abuse deaf child or they will get in trouble legally.
Also, law has passed “No child left behind” so I would suggest that we work together and set aside personal differences and focus ONE ISSUE at hand is ASL for babies and children.
November 26th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Hi Shawn,
No, I am not a “spy” or anything like that. I do get information (mostly fund raising activities which I NEVER attend and magazines about hearing aid technology and CI technology which often gets up on the bathroom floor next to the toilet for reading), and that is pretty much about it.
I use ASL, my children use ASL, one of my kids is part time student at a deaf school, my daughter is involved in deaf basketball league, we get together with other ASL-using families, etc. So please don’t believe everything you read or hear. IF any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Thanks
)
Happy Thanksgiving, Shawn.
November 26th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Actually, there would be no need for spies because everything we have is out there. Take DeafRead, DVTV, and other deaf centric sites talks about a lot of things. Anyone in Public Relations normally scans all medias, including the internet. So, I think this argument of spies is kind of a mute point. For one, we’re not trying to keep anything a secret. If any deaf oriented organization has a plan which they would not want anyone outside of their org to know, they’d do well with membership only site.
Which is why, we all need to be mindful of how we behave online, especially on a site like DVTV and DR. What kind of an image do we want to project to the world? What kind of a message do we want to send? Deaf Pundit’s recent blog about marketing and strategy is another thing to think about. Remember, public relations tool can be very powerful.
But, we keep forgetting about something. There are deaf people so much part of deaf culture who uses C.I. and they chose it for themselves. I just wish we can move beyond AGB and just work on advocating for ASL without putting anything else down. Just focus on the message. I think with that approach, we might just reach out more to parents. AGB will do what they do…we can’t change them, right? But, why waste our time and breath, when we can be putting it all to one focus. This is something for an ASL/Bilingual organization to think about. I’m totally for ASL and I think when one adds ASL to AVT/C.I., it’s a win win all the way around, but, we can’t be running around like some hardliners with an agenda that produces no result.
If we can show more kids like Miss Kat, who is deaf and started with ASL but later added C.I., her mother refuses to drop ASL from her daughter’s life. That blog was awesome. It shows that one can use ASL with C.I. and AVT.
And, if you’re curious about Miss Kat’s site, I will add it to my blog roll. I don’t want to add links here without MZ’s permission.
November 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Let you know that me finish left on Candy’s website but my post is waiting by moderator to approve or not from this link:http://candysweetblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/doing-deaf-differently-re-inventing-and-re-defining-differently/
My post still wait by moderator!!! Sighs… Oh well.. Im just done with sweet potato… We all will go to my Deaf husband’s parents for Thanksgiving dinner at 6pm…. Hugs. Shawn ( pls go read down below my msg with my post on Candy.)
ASLRisen Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 27, 2008 at 10:18 am
Candy??? You video comment number 8 from this DVTV link: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/30266/
Is that you???
Let you know that I already saw it before DEAFOIC.. I was hurt and I did NOT say Karen spy or mole.. I was not talking about Karen! I was defending Jean Boutcher’s blog after I saw other blogger did mentioned Jean Boutcher!!! I have NOT say Karen’s name from my vlog!!! I was not happy with Karen think of me talking about her!!! Why she brought up that!!!??? I thought she misunderstand me!!! AG Bell was HONOR President of International Eugenic in 1921 just one year before AG Bell died in 1922… Why your blog no video comment access???
November 29th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
[...] Candy’s blog were supposedly making fun of Shawn for her comments on MishkaZena’s blog here. Not very many of us agreed with drmzz regarding that, and IamMine was outraged about the incident [...]
November 30th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Karen, To let you know that I have NOT label you as MOLE (SPY). From what I already learned that there were Deaf spy because of the commenters that I learn from this link:
http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/30197/
Karen I have NOT use your name as a MOLE!!!
December 1st, 2008 at 6:57 am
Hey Good mawning MZ!!!
Sorry my bad for not giving you my DVTV link: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/30378/
Can you see Karen and her cute daughter’s video comment number 50??? Wow she has beautiful Christmas tree!!! Big hugs, Shawn (gotta go warm up my car then go drop my hearing son to his college campus and go work today)
December 1st, 2008 at 7:10 am
Hey MZ!!! Hope you do NOT mind to ask Karen to read my comment on this blog for me please?
Karen, for your comment number 21 dated on
November 26th, 2008 at 1:39 pm but I already vlogged on Tuseday, Nov.26 “Warning: Alexander Graham Bell can Fool You!” after I dropped my parents off to their home from their doctor office because I learned from the commenter nbr 1 on Tuseday morning before I went pick up my hearing son to bring him home from his college campus and then used video comments on MZ’s other blog and then gone out to pick up my parents in law to their doctor for their flu shots from this link: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/30197/
Boy my friends and I went gone CRAZY thoughts before I vlogged and then went work!!! LOL Big hugs, Shawn
December 19th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
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