Harassment of Deaf Gays and Lesbians
Apparently it is becoming a serious problem in DVTV. Deaf Christians are imposing their religious values and making righteous judgments on Deaf Gays and Lesbians. Normally I avoid religious topics. There’s an excellent reason why people shouldn’t talk about religions, politics, and money… these divisive topics get people all fired up, damage friendships, and poison the social atmosphere.
However, what I’ve observed disturbs me tremendously. This religious intolerance on the part of Deaf Christians is actually oppressive to Deaf Gays and Lesbians. Let DVTV be a pleasant and social cyber-gathering for Deaf people, both straight and gay. Please don’t use religion to drive out a certain portion of the Deaf Community from this wonderful ASL forum. It’s not right and fundamentally unfair for the Deaf Gays and Lesbians who have the right to exist as they are, not being able to participate in DVTV freely without constant harassment from others due to their sexual orientation. It is not your position to judge other people.
Hearing people oppress many Deaf people. Deaf Christians, you, of all people, should understand what it feels to be oppressed. Please leave the Deaf Gays and Lesbians alone.
Hurricane Warnings: Some time ago, I mentioned the improvement of accessibility with the emergency hurricane alerts for the Deaf and HoH citizens in LA and FL. With the latest monstrous hurricane Ike, ASL interpreters were shown along with the state officials in TX, too.
Body piercing: Over the years we have witnessed the popularity of body piercing soar, especially among the younger people. Just like with other expressions of art, this does have an extreme side. This site is not for people with faint heart or weak stomach. Some of the piercings actually looks very painful. http://wowcoolpics.blogspot.com/2008/09/very-extreme-body-piercing-is-part-of.html
Disclaimer: Posts here are written as a blogger, not reflecting my position as a DeafRead Editor. These two positions are completely separated. Why am I making this statement? Because apparently some people don’t understand the distinctions of wearing two different hats. MZ
P.S. Someone asked me for the link. Here is the link that prompted me to blog on this topic. “To ASL Gay & Lesbian Community’ http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/24753/. [It is now deleted by the DVTV administrator]
PPS. Since someone had already left a religious comment, I need to make this clear that from now on on this post, any religious comment against gay people will be deleted here. This post covers tolerance of gays and lesbians which means it is OK for people to be gay.
PPPS. Sigh. One of the reasons I don’t like to talk about religion is because people will keep talking about religions. debating it endlessly. This post focus on the rights of gay Deaf people to participate without harassment from others due to certain religions beliefs. I would respectfully ask readers to refrain from making religious comments, pros and cons, too. The new comments containing religious themes will be deleted as I want to focus on the tolerance and respect, not the religion aspect. Thank you. MZ
Apparently it is becoming a serious problem in DVTV. Deaf Christians are imposing their religious values and making righteous judgments on Deaf Gays and Lesbians. Normally I avoid religious topics. There’s an excellent reason why people shouldn’t talk about religions, politics, and money… these divisive topics get people all fired up, damage friendships, and poison the social atmosphere.
However, what I’ve observed disturbs me tremendously. This religious intolerance on the part of Deaf Christians is actually oppressive to Deaf Gays and Lesbians. Let DVTV be a pleasant and social cyber-gathering for Deaf people, both straight and gay. Please don’t use religion to drive out a certain portion of the Deaf Community from this wonderful ASL forum. It’s not right and fundamentally unfair for the Deaf Gays and Lesbians who have the right to exist as they are, not being able to participate in DVTV freely without constant harassment from others due to their sexual orientation. It is not your position to judge other people.
Hearing people oppress many Deaf people. Deaf Christians, you, of all people, should understand what it feels to be oppressed. Please leave the Deaf Gays and Lesbians alone.
Hurricane Warnings: Some time ago, I mentioned the improvement of accessibility with the emergency hurricane alerts for the Deaf and HoH citizens in LA and FL. With the latest monstrous hurricane Ike, ASL interpreters were shown along with the state officials in TX, too.
Body piercing: Over the years we have witnessed the popularity of body piercing soar, especially among the younger people. Just like with other expressions of art, this does have an extreme side. This site is not for people with faint heart or weak stomach. Some of the piercings actually looks very painful. http://wowcoolpics.blogspot.com/2008/09/very-extreme-body-piercing-is-part-of.html
Disclaimer: Posts here are written as a blogger, not reflecting my position as a DeafRead Editor. These two positions are completely separated. Why am I making this statement? Because apparently some people don’t understand the distinctions of wearing two different hats. MZ
P.S. Someone asked me for the link. Here is the link that prompted me to blog on this topic. “To ASL Gay & Lesbian Community’ http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/24753/. [It is now deleted by the DVTV administrator]
PPS. Since someone had already left a religious comment, I need to make this clear that from now on on this post, any religious comment against gay people will be deleted here. This post covers tolerance of gays and lesbians which means it is OK for people to be gay.
PPPS. Sigh. One of the reasons I don’t like to talk about religion is because people will keep talking about religions. debating it endlessly. This post focus on the rights of gay Deaf people to participate without harassment from others due to certain religions beliefs. I would respectfully ask readers to refrain from making religious comments, pros and cons, too. The new comments containing religious themes will be deleted as I want to focus on the tolerance and respect, not the religion aspect. Thank you. MZ
September 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
*shakes head* I saw of that going on over there, and I wanted no part of it. It’s sad to know it’s still going on. Several of our Deaf Community leaders are gay or lesbian, such as MJ Bienvenu. Does that mean she now should be tossed out of the community or ignored because she’s a lesbian?
There are many of us online, and for us to be judged/shoved aside solely on our sexual orientation, is a disservice to the community, if we’re sincere in our endeavors to come together and become a better community.
September 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
How is it harassment if you don’t watch it? Isn’t there a tag or subject heading warning you ahead of time that the video is of religious nature? Harassment is when you have no control. You have control. Don’t watch it. Just as if you don’t like what certain blogsite are saying, don’t go there. Has there been other religious videos not of the Christine nature?
September 16th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I am support Lesbian and Gay which I am straight and married to my husband for 17 years and thought it need to stopping Christian person to abusive on Sexual orientation and leave them alone!!
I thnk their live is simply feeling that their body is mess up and their mind is not clearly in your body if you feel that you are gay or not straight.
Some people have a wrong birth and they are not gay or lesbian. as gential parts is mess up. It is their decision.
For example, if I born female gential and my brain is male. Few people are not gay or lesbian. It just their body is not correct. Doctor should not amputee of their penis if he force you to be female. Doctor cannot control you as parents and leave their gential leave alone! some of people doesn’t really understand the medical related. I would fight for my son or daughter if they are oppoiste sex while they are newborn.. Don’t change their gentil until one of parents tell a truth to their birth- defect unless you feel girl or boy. That’s it !
That’s different!
September 16th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Mishka,
Yeah, I’ve seen that drama going on and on. It wouldn’t let up at all unless the rules need to be set up as soon as Tayler steps in with the rules and possible flag.
Those bible thumpers need to just STFU and show some respect. If they want to talk religion crap, they can set up their own website for religion crap for all I care.
McConnell, you need to take my cue…just STFU. The rules apply to every forum that doesn’t need religion, politics and whatnots.
Misha
September 16th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
In this case, the Deaf Gays and Lesbians were blindsided. This commenter started with an apology for the attacks Deaf Christians launched against Deaf Gays and Lesbians, then he switched tactics in the middle and attacked them “To ASL Gay & Lesbian community/” http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/24753/
Blatant prejudice and bigotry of any kind shouldn’t be tolerated… whether it is based on the sexual orientation of people or communication methods of Deaf and HoH people, along with other groups.
September 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Hi Mishka!
Wow… well I was told about what’s going on over at DVTV just a couple of hours which I didn’t follow for days but did I take it by surprise?
No.. unfortunately.
You know what I always say? Why do these type of deaf people discriminate/oppress deaf gays but yet they do not like being discriminated/oppress by hearing people?
That’s called double standards.. *sighs*
What do we do with these people?
They just don’t get it… really.
-SG
September 16th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
It is noted when people try to preach to gays about the sins of homosexuality, gays would just tune out. So it is a waste of time & energy trying to convince homosexuals to repent if no love is shown. They only would feel judged & condemned. In addition, many former homosexuals would find it possible to change when there is no pressure involved & let their personal beliefs & convictions w/ God change them! All we can do is to pray for their salvation! Only God can do the impossible & move mountains!
See the link. Very interesting!
[the link deleted due to its inappropriateness]
September 16th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Yes, unfortunately they keep doing hot topics that can cause explosiveness and such! Internet is pretty much a wild wild west after all. lol
MZ, I usually avoid the hot issues aka religions, homos, politics, etc but can talk about money only prosper way. You’re right that they need to learn to avoid those hot issues just cuz the Internet is “a worldwide public open”.
It amazes me how idiots continue exposing them and causing sour lemons and explosiveness. Hard for me to fathom sometimes. Sad
So I really think DVTV needs 24/7 moderators and check every video clips to accept or block before allowing them into DVTV. Then it would be much more pleasure place to attend, share, or watch.
Maybe money or help is much acquired to cover and control like that, probably? If impossible, then DVTV creator (Taylor) could categorize them so it might be little easier. He really need to realize to do something about them. (same with deafread sort of) Sure, it is not that easy for him to control so, otherwise.
September 16th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Hi,
Yeah its rather unfortunate that its happening. But we need to pause and ask ourselves, “why is it happening”, why all of sudden, we’re getting people jumping in the soapbox and preaching against gays and lesbians, is it because they are brainwashed by their churches, their pastors telling them that they shouldn’t associate with them or what. Where is the message coming from? Where are these people coming from? Are they members of a particular church somewhere in the country? I agree that it must really hurt the gays and lesbians to have to listen all of their preaching. But they are really fighting back, they are not backing down which is great and expressing their feelings that they are not taking it anymore. I applaud them for taking a stand on it. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise that they can finally stand up, be proud of who they are and literally fight back.
I hope they know that there are many supporters out there and we care about them and we will go all the way to make sure that DVTV is a place where we all can agree to disagree civilly, learn new things, be open to one another, respect one another and to develop into a powerful group.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Christian, this kind of talk is not welcome here. You are in the wrong place.
For everybody else: from now on on this post, any religious comment will be deleted here. This post covers tolerance of gays and lesbians which means it is OK for people to be gay.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Glad you brought it up. Deaf community is precious. It’s a place for everyone to get in for a pleasure.
Everyone has a right to share anything they wanted to express. They’re welcome to DeafVideo community.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Thank you MZ!!
I was trying to make a point to one commentor and I realized he didn’t get it. So instead of getting all aggravated, I choose not to read any further vlogs associating with Deaf Gay/Lesbians unless I know they’re Deaf Gay/Lesbians themselves. Because of what was happening on DVTV and DeafTube, I will NOT watch any vlogs regarding to the topics given by straight vloggers. This is rule #1 I’m going to abide for time being.
I’m tired of being crucified on daily basis, not only from Deaf Christians but from mainstreamed public as well.
MZ, thank you for validating my point about this particular vlogger changing his tactics without any warning. He needs to see this entry.
Good night.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Good point about gays and lesbians just live and let live with the same rules as the rest of us, with no bashing especially on religious principles.
However, let’s not blame “Christians” as oppressors–many gay-unfriendly people are of other persuasions as well. The term has been given a very bad reputation in history because of misapplication of its principles.
Basically, Christianity teaches love and tolerance (along with other religions.) It’s *misguided people* that interpret scriptures to judge gays.
September 16th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Christian,
I dont agree iwth your blant about being against gay/lesbian. I think you lost your mind about related to reglious.
I have a great friend who is gay and cannot solve if he lying to married. Why not you watch Deaf Joey at Deafvideo.tv.. I am appualuded SeekGeo and DJDeafJoey’s share is educated deaf people in our deaf community should be knit with a non straight or straight people who is choose their lives happiness and open their closet opening and cannot change their back old time. Impossible. I agree with MZ’s comment #11
Boston, I hope everyone listen you and thanks for sharing with DJDeafJoey’s opening his closet,too.
September 17th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Way to go .. I just did made the comment under KvnCamper a few minutes ago. If 10 commandments is for everyone .. then why target Gay and Lesbian Community? It hurts. I do respect his perspective but it’s somewhat offensive. Thanks for bringing this up here.
BTW – I admire DJDeafJoey’s story about himself as a Gay Father. I knew he is gay however I am stunned he brings this up to everyone in the DV.TV. See? Joey is just a human being like many of us!
September 17th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Christian: You’re hysterical. Your comments reflect the true ignorance on your part. YOu claimed that there are “former homosexuals” that eventually succeed as straight men — PROVE IT!
In fact, Wayne Besen took pictures of several ex-gays leaders who proclaimed that they are straight … Wayne took pictures of these liars in where? GAY BARS several MONTHS after they claimed that they are 100% straight!
So do you truly think that gay men would wanted to be gay if it was a matter of choice? Not really. I would not choose to be gay just because it is coolest thing to be! I was born with it and none of your Jesus b.s. can change my sexual orientation, capisce?
R-
September 17th, 2008 at 2:25 am
Oh Christian,
Ridor got that right.
Old friend of mine who told me that he was finally turned into straight due to his religious and family reasons. They celebrated and such but guess what? He was caught sleeping with a man just weeks later and then he announced he turned straight AGAIN for good.
But, it didn’t work out because a few days later, he was caught again but this time it was at some gay bars.
If anyone can turn into something then you bet your ass I will turn to be hearing in a heartbeat just so I can have a job that I want much easier and get paid very well!
But that can’t happen because I was born deaf AND the same goes for born being gay.
-SG
September 17th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Ridor, of course I wanna be Gay if I had the choice. Gay is as good as Straight!
September 17th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Deleted as predicted, Eric.
It’s not because I don’t like you. I don’t even know you. You are very articulate and possess a strong passion for your religion. That’s not the issue. You ignored my request not to use religion to bash gays. I’ve already given advanced warning that these comments would be deleted.
Don’t you even know the meaning of the word respect? You do not have the right to impose your values on someone else against their will. Nor do you have the right to ignore the wishes of a blogger and attempt to hijack it to promote your narrow religious beliefs and intolerance. By your actions, you are indicating that you are not a true Christian. A true Christian will not cast stones at another person, using religion as an excuse.
Thank God we live in America! God Bless America for its tolerance of the diversity in the religions and the rights of people to participate in religions or not.
September 17th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Yes, so far the Deaf Gay Community is fighting back, asserting its rights to participate in DVTV without harassment and intolerance. It’s encouraging to watch the increasing support for the Deaf Gay people.
Dianrez, of course there are many good Christians who don’t use the bible as a weapon to bash against the gay people. The bible has undergone several translations since its original version, losing some meanings in the process. I was referring to the Deaf Christians at DVTV who were already bashing the Gay people, not all Deaf Christians. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify myself
The good news is that the offensive video that triggered the meltdown yesterday was deleted last night. The DVTV administrator wasn’t aware until I notified him of the development, then he took immediate actions. Thanks, Tayler
September 17th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Mishka Zena: Please e-mail me. I want to share some personal comments with you.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Eric Jindra,
angry at you? No, we are not angry at you. We educate everyone to respect the way of life we are living. We are happy and peace.
most gay and lesbian people are going to church every sunday to pray and communicate with God. Is that sin?
Christ, Christian, Christian religious and so-called Christians. Now you said “church of christ” is a cult religion. Which can you find a PERFECT religion and TRUE church?
NONE of “churches” are true. Sorry to tell you.
My church is my home.
You think gay and lesbian people does not believe in God and Jesus Christ?
You and Christians preach on non-christian or different christian practice people.
BEST way to preach people is….let people come to YOU and ask you to teach and preach—is truly PEACE!
That is all I can say.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Eric, your comments have been deleted for the fourth time. Please do not discuss religion here. The focus is about respecting Deaf gay people regardless of our religious beliefs (or none).
Once you set up your blog as you mentioned you are planning to do that, then you can discuss this all you want.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:42 am
It’s painfully obvious that the Deaf Community needs some education on sexual behavior, identity and orientation. Those three things are pretty complicated and anyone who has an ounce of common sense will know that this is NOT a choice.
Those who are truly gay, cannot be turned straight. However, there are bisexuals, and they can be in either a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship.
So I’m very skeptical of anyone who says that gays can be converted to heterosexuality. Either the gay person is lying to themselves, or they are really bisexual, and do not really understand or even want to explore the concept of bisexuality. Biphobia is also a problem, more so than homophobia.
Being deaf, who wants to expose themselves to even more ostracism? We’re already ostracized enough due to our deafness. *shakes her head*
And to those so called Christians who oppose homosexuality – the passages that supposedly criticize homosexuality is in the OLD TESTAMENT, not the New one, which you guys are supposed to follow! And if you’re going to follow the Old Testament, you might as well quit eating pork, shellfish, and wear clothes that are all from the same cloth, not have sex during a woman’s menstrual cycle, and have your hair at a certain length, and men wear beards.
Do you really want to do that? If not, then stop cherry picking the Bible!
September 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Another comment, from a different reader, had been deleted.
Sigh. One of the reasons I don’t like to talk about religion is because people will keep talking about religions. debating it endlessly. This post focus on the rights of gay Deaf people to participate without harassment from others due to certain religions beliefs. I would respectfully ask readers to refrain from making religious comments, pros and cons, too. The new comments containing religious themes will be deleted as I want to focus on the tolerance and respect, not the religion aspect. Please refrain from using the bible, too. Thank you. MZ
September 17th, 2008 at 9:56 am
I am very disappointed in you. I liked your blog since Gallaudet Protest days but disappointed that you’re not open to different views for discussion.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:58 am
More sighings. Yes, we all have the Freedom of Speech. However, this is a personal blog that I own and I want to restrict it to the discussion of tolerance and respect for Deaf Gay people, regardless of our personal and religious beliefs. This is not the place to discuss religions, nor do I intend it to become a religious discussion. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect or discriminate against Christians. Even the opposing side using the bible to criticize actions of the Christans are also deleted. You want to expand it further by bringing religion against Gay people into the discussion against my wishes. That is not a good Christian behavior. We all need to respect the wishes of others whom we are visiting, whether we like it or not. It is called courtesy. Thank you.
I love you all. I just want love and peace among us, not intolerance toward each other due to different values in culture, communication, religion, and sexual orientation, etc. The bottom line: we all are human beings who happens to be D/deaf, HoH and hearing. Diversity rocks! MZ.
September 17th, 2008 at 10:33 am
thanks, MZ for doing your job. Not easy to delete when you know it is freedom of speech.. but they abuse their words against minority people… using G-D against them. Sad.. Leave everyone alone. I am tired of some Christians ruining the name of Christians… give them bad name. They also don’t reveal their names. MZ, avoid them.. delete them if inappropriate remarks. thanks
September 17th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Off of the point, but still related to your posting.
I just checked the link you posted, about body piercings.
OUCH! I sure hope that my kids won’t grow up to be interested in the body piercings
/. I know that body piercing is seen as art by some people… same as body tattooing.
Ironic at how safer the subject about body piercing and body tattooing is, compared to discussing religion.
Ewww, about body piercing, just for art’s sake…
September 17th, 2008 at 10:47 am
It all goes two ways.
I agree some Christians go too far and even some gays goes too far. And then there are Atheist that don’t give a frick.
We all know what the bible says, yet not everyone takes the bible as the final word. There are even Gay Christians and Gay Atheist.
I have met people who say things like
“I believe being gay is wrong, because the
bible says so. Yet, I love gay people, I’m
friends with many. While I do not approve of
their lifestyle, I am still friends with them
and do not cross that line.”
In other words, many will not even bother to discuss it. For some, friendship means more than the issue itself.
Even Jesus preaches that we all should love everyone, our neighbors and even our enemies (I grew up hearing that every day.)
People need to relax and not get too opinionated on sensitive things. Understand that not everyone shares the same beliefs.
I am friends with people of all faiths and none. Christians tend to think that they should not associate with anyone that deviates from the bible. Yet, Jesus had dinner at the home of a depraved soul (that is, if you care what the bible says…..)
I have too many gay friends and they’re one of the most fun people to be with. Most are someone I can count on as a friend, better than my heterosexual friends, believe it or not!
Thou shall not judge, lest, ye be judged.
September 17th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Sigh…
We are in the 21st century, not 19th century so it is no need for us to turn back to the old centuries where the rights of GLBT people were greatly oppressed!
Those GLBT-bashing Deaf Christians are sickening and disgusting me by thumping and using their bible and religious bashing against the GLBT people. In short, I have no respect for them as long as they do not show any respect toward the GLBT people.
I feel blessed to have several Deaf good friends who are gay because we care each other so much. They know I am politically conservative, but they appreciate me very much for supporting them as well as GLBT people on their rights strongly.
A few years ago, I went to my good friend’s gay wedding as an usher and it was a first-time, educational and rewarding experience for me to gather and enjoy. As a result, their wedding functions and services were as normal as the heterosexual weddings.
September 17th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Freedom, It is MZ’s blog –not yours. You can set your own blog to discuss anything you like! The bottom line is RESPECT! We are human beings here. Kudo to MZ for bring this up here.
September 17th, 2008 at 11:52 am
[deleted. RLM, please read the bottom of my post, requesting that religion not be discussed here. Thanks
]
Human sexuality is more fluid than Christians would like us to be aware of our human imperfections.
[deleted]
How can people deny someone from loving another person and let hir live out the life as we are free to do?
I often was told by many people that I have more “heart of gold” than any Christians.
MZ,
I done the psychological research paper on why people do the body piecering arts for Professor Steve Weiner.
How interesting of many people with body piecerings are highly intelligent and self-assured individuals.
No questions about how body piecerings could damage anyone like piecered tongue damaging teeth enamels or open up pathway for body infection and STD into the contained area.
I often find people with body piecering to be truly gross. Who for me to judge other people. We have to accept who and what they are.
I once done with the guy, who had the Prince Philip ring on his private part pretty long time ago. Kinda awkward and unpleasant.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
September 17th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Misha -
“McConnell, you need to take my cue…just STFU. The rules apply to every forum that doesn’t need religion, politics and whatnots.”
Does DVTV’s guideline specifically states no religion or politics in videos submitted to them? If so then DVTV is not doing it’s job by having a vague guideline. If not then the current solution is not to view those vlogs. The same goes for blogs if you don’t like the person don’t read the person’s comment. And you tell me to “STFU”? So much for a dialogue.
I am curious as to whether these complaints are merely based on perceived harrassments versus actual video harrassments. Though I ask the same question as how can it be harrassment if you don’t watch it? And why would you want to watch it in the first place? Though I haven’t seen those videos so I’m not in the position to know whether any of your claims are true. And if it is the case, has Tayler done anything to address those particular videos or address your concerns?
So, what are some of the solutions being suggested here anyway? Make explicit the guideline in DVTV that no discussion of religious nature (or politics or whatever) be allowed? Or the mere mention of the signed word for “God” be struck? What? Why do you continue to watch those videos anyway if they bother you? That I simply do not understand.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Mike, I think you would understand better had you seen the vlog.
You see, he addressed it to them: “To ASL Gay & Lesbian Community’. First he got their attention by telling them he understood and apologized for the judgmental attitude of Deaf Christians. In the middle, without any warning, he shifted gears and attacked them. I signed off when I realized what his tactics were so I didn’t see the whole vlog. But apparently it got worse.
If you don’t know what is going on, you should investigate further before jumping on the Deaf gay people. They are NOT stupid. No wonder why Misha got angry at you.
By the way, the offending vlog was promptly deleted by Tayler after I alerted him.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
A Deaf Pundit,
Obviously you haven’t read through whole of xxxx.
[delted]
Please do your homework before you point your finger at others. A finger pointing at others but 4 fingers pointing straight against you.
MZ you are so shameful, because you allow him to refer to OT but you deleted my comments all just because you are totally hostile to xxxx and himself. [deleted]
Again you deleted and edited Freedom’s comments because you won’t admit that he was right! Woe to you!
September 17th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Eric, you have no idea what my religious beliefs are and you won’t as it is NOT relevant here.
Deaf Pundit didn’t see my warning. That’s the reason I added it to the comment section, too. Don’t blame Deaf Pundit for that, as it was my fault. Had you read later, you will see an opponent’s comments deleted, too, so I am not favoring any side.
Please stick to the subject about respect and tolerance of a certain portion of the Deaf Community. Any references to the bible or religious talk will be deleted.
So far you have shown a lack of understanding the words: respect and tolerance. You are giving the Christianity a bad name. Be careful. Thousands of people read this blog and they will not appreciate the fact that you insisted repeatedly forcing your religious beliefs here against my wishes.
It’s not your position to judge others nor is it your position to impose your values on others.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Hearing Christians have been bashing the hearing GLBT community online as well, not any different in the d/Deaf community either, sad to say.
One would think because the hearing oppresses the d/Deaf on a daily basis that we d/Deaf would be more tolerant of differences, sexual orientation or morals, within our community.
To give attention to the bible-thumpers only feeds their “holier-than-thou” attitude and their Biblical cherry-picking, as DP put it. To restrict online discussion of religion, politics, money, or sexuality for that matter, will only drive such discussion underground into a more virulent and uglier form. That would be censorship by a higher authority, the editors, that is. Sure you really want that restriction on the freedom of speech? That sort of thing can snowball into further restrictions.
The only way YOU, the reader, can control such discussion is to ignore it and move on. The more of you readers who ignore a particularly repugnant subject the more that discussion will die on the vine of its own accord.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Normally I would agree with you, Ann C. Not this time because this has been going out of control and these judgmental Deaf Christians need to see exactly what I think of their atricious behavior. This is my way of offering moral support to the Deaf gay people and they have told me how much they appreciated my standing up for their rights to continue their business without constant harassment.
Did you read my disclaimer? This is me wearing my personal hat, not my DeafRead editor hat. This is my personal blog. I don’t enjoy these kind of fanatical religious discussions in real life, so why should I tolerate them in my own blog? Intolerance and lack of respect are the issues I’m discussing here, not the religion. I do not want this topic to be derailed by religious discussions, which some commenters keep trying. There are ample blogs where religions are discussed. Not here.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
“If you don’t know what is going on, you should investigate further before jumping on the Deaf gay people.”
You are mischaracterizing my comments as “jumping on the Deaf gay people.” My comments were to the effect of “It is not harrassment if one doesn’t watch it” and that’s true. The same for blogs. Just don’t bother reading the person’s blog the next time. Apparently there was no way of knowing that this video version you’re speaking of would turn sour later on. Granted. But I have not seen it and so I cannot make the full determination of what really went on. I would assume that people already know who this person is and would avoid in the future from watching his/her vlog on DVTV.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I was actually referring to those commenters who suggested that Tayler censor such discussion of those subjects in DVTV, I wasn’t referring to you. I did read your disclaimers. I didn’t make myself clear, my apologies.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
MZ, [deleted]
I am barking at you because you emphasis on “Respect,” strong advocate for balance information, and diversity. But you are taking double edge sword against yourself because you are the one who refuse to practice for what you preach.
From now on I won’t ever post any comments on your blog because you are so shameful to exchange a truth for a lie.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Mike I don’t know if they are familiar with this vlogger or not. I have never seen him before, but I only checked DVTV sometimes and only in the last two or three months, not earlier.
Ann C, thank you for clarifying. I apologized for not understanding what you meant the first time.
Eric, apparently you are oblivious to the statement that comments from BOTH sides were deleted after I made my request for no religious discussion known in both the post and comment section. In fact, as far as I could remember, you’ve been here only to push your religious beliefs against others, even with topics not related to religion at all. This wasn’t the first time I’ve deleted your comments. Please do feel free to go elsewhere as I don’t permit religious preaching here, out of respect for pther readers. I am sure you can find other blogs where you can preach to others regardless if they are willing or not. Have a nice afternoon!
September 17th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Sighhhh…
Diane … MZ deleted my two messages. I was merely pointing out that anyone is free to express thoughts and feelings. I don’t think that vlog was any form of harrasment and I am asking you all to stop bashing Christians. Same goes for Christians to stop bashing Gay & Lesbians. Show LOVE for everyone.
How simple is that? I guess MZ deleted my message because I disagreed with her. Sorry I am free to express my opinion here.
Thank you.
September 17th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
:::: feeling like a broken record here ::::
Freedom, your two messages were deleted because you discussed religion, disregarding my wishes not to have a religious discussion here.
Personally I think if the Deaf Christians keep imposing their religious beliefs on others like you and Eric did repeatedly here, they will get bashed. Perhaps you and others should try not pushing your religious beliefs on gay people without their permission and see what happens. I won’t be surprised if you end up not being bashed.
Basically you get what you dish out. In other words, if you disrespect others, they won’t be receptive to your messages. If you respect others by keeping your religious beliefs to yourself, you will get better reception this way.
September 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Mishkazena, so, are you saying that this is not as big as a problem you’re saying in DVTV?? Something along the line the same hyperbole used by some Deaf bloggers/vloggers that CI bloggers are “taking over” DeafRead?
I just want to understand whether this is approaching the mass hysteria level or not with this DVTV thing.
How many vlogs did Tayler delete that were considered “harrassment”?
September 17th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Broken record here too… Discuss religion?? You labeled me as Christian…. I didn’t say I was so you’re the one who’s labeling me. I just expressed my opinion whether I think it was a harrassment or not and I felt it wasn’t right of you to bring the audience over to DVTV and pour insults to him.
THE WHOLE POINT IS WE SHOULD RESPECT AND LOVE EACH OTHER…
And I think we are on the same page here.
September 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Mike, I haven’t been following DVTV closely as my time is very limited. I check it periodically and am extremely selective in what I choose to watch. From others, I could tell that this has been a problem for some time. With this vlogger, many people mentioned about being blindsided.
You will need to ask Tayler that. I don’t work there.
Freedom, well you know the expression: if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck…. You sprouted like a typical Christian. I don’t see what the problem is unless you are ashamed to be identified openly as a Christian.
Please tell me where you saw me telling other people to go over to DVTV and bash that vlogger. Oh, that’s right, I haven’t made that statement. I provided the link later and only because someone asked me for it. What made you think I am responsible for the behavior of other? Only they are responsible for their conduct while I take care of my own.
I have no problem with you being religious as long as you don’t force it on me and others.
We should respect and love each other. Respect includes not bringing religion if someone else doesn’t care to discuss the topic. Respect means leaving Deaf gay people alone without harassing them and same with leaving Christians alone. Love doesn’t involve bashing and rejection of another person because of who they are. Love means accepting and respecting each other despite of our differences.
September 17th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Putting words in my mouth. Sigh… I do not assume everyone is Gay or Straight so don’t assume or make accusations. You did type in P.S. in your blog referring to that link. So you’re the duck afterall….
Peace.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Please do show me where I said that you assume everybody is Gay or Straight. Oh, that’s right. I didn’t. There you go, making assumptions again.
Funny about you accusing me of making accusations, considering that you already accused me of sending readers to DVTV to bash the vlogger. I didn’t assume anything. Not only did you already acknowledge religion personally in your comment, you already discussed religion, hence the deletion of your comments. I still have your first one, and I just double checked. Yup, religious talk with *gasp* some preaching.
P.S. means I added it after I completed the post (after someone asked me for the link). Had I wanted it there in the first place, it would have been in the post already, not as a P.S.
I am done with this topic with you. If you are looking for a fight, you have come to the wrong place.
Have a nice night. Peace.
September 17th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Pondering what Freedom said: “I do not assume everyone is Gay or Straight so don’t assume or make accusations.”
The person is not Gay. The person is not straight. Hmmm, what could this person be????
September 17th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Thank you, Mishka Zena. It means a lot to us, gays to recognize many straight allies support us. We need a support system or we would feel out of place online. Deflating gays is very dangerous, leading to suicides, low self-esteem, drinking or drug abuse problems. It is sad that these insensitive people don’t realize that.
[deleted] I was raised in a Catholic family. I was alienated and hurt, feeling hatred. It was a dumb, irrational thing to do!
END HARASSMENT NOW!
September 17th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
[...] among the deaf and some harassment they get from churches where they belong. According to the blogger, Deaf Christians are imposing their religious values and making righteous judgments on Deaf Gays [...]
September 17th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Well, I’m against the homo practices, but I don’t bother to judge them because I have no right to do that so thus it becomes no point accusing them except causing explosiveness and bitterness like we some posters explained above.
So why bother it after all? Let Him judge them, not you and I. We all are sinners… whether be it a straight or homo person, true so!
It’s all common sense and respect that we all need to practice whenever it’s public (Internet, too).
September 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am
MZ,
Not really fair about Bob Rourke’s comment on the discussion of religion while you deleted my comments regarding several religious books!
Edit Bob Rourke’s comment now, please.
RLM
September 18th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
RLM, Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It has been deleted.
For the religious skeptics, see, I do delete religious comments from both sides, including RLM, Bob and others who frowns on religious-induced homophobia.
September 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Mel (Iammine) left her comment in a vlog, supporting the Deaf Gays and Lesbians. She also shared an amusing story. A must see vlog: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/24983/
Thanks, Mel!! That incident was hilarious. Of course your hubby has such a niiicceeee mane! You, too. Too bad Dave refuses to grow his long, but I still love him a ton!
September 18th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Wish Seesmic worked so I could leave a video comment over there … Mel – I can totally see that happening! Ha! I smack-fist you guys! Thanks for your support as always.
September 18th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Great vlog!
September 18th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Aw, thanks! And your welcome!
I also kiss-fist the wonderful support from people over at DVTV!
I’ve gotten a request to post this on my blog on DR… debating on that right now as I don’t have the time for comments.
(If the DVTV commentators under my vlog are reading this – thank you for the wonderful comments!!
)
Take care!
September 19th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Mike, I checked about the tags at DVTV. Some have tags, but not others.
Karen, I hope not, either. One of my family member is very conservative and her kid ends up with a tattoo and a nose piercing… nothing that bad, but it wasn’t easy on her mom. A distant relative glared at a male man sporting a earring and said.. that won’t happen to my son when he grows up!…. Fast Forward twenty years later: I saw a picture of that kid, now grown, with a pierced earring. *laughing*
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
[...] a DeafVideo vlog few weeks ago, now since deleted from DVTV. Nevertheless, it had spilled over to here and here, then expanded to here and here. Now, don’t get all emotionally work up over this [...]