DBC: Confusing Messages
Deaf Bilingual Coalition began as a humble group with John Egbert and a handful of Deaf Leaders last July to discuss about promotion of ASL. The idea was sparked by Amy Cohen Efron’s Greatest Irony where hearing babies are encouraged to learn sign language to communicate while their vocal cords are immature, but deaf babies are discouraged to sign even though their vocal cords aren’t developed, too. Since then, it had experienced a rapid growth over the first year and conducted four educational rallies. Shy of its first anniversary, DBC just completed hosting a successful national conference, attracting well-known and respected speakers and hundreds of participants. Congratulations, DBC!
From the beginning, DBC had said its agenda is to promote ASL for deaf babies. Later it expanded to include deaf children:
DBC stands by its mission and continues to promote a clear vision that we support ALL Deaf infants and children to have access to ASL from birth and to be fluent in ASL and English (bilingual). DBC is not against speech and listening training as long as it is partnered with ASL. DBC’s goal is to educate those who impact the lives of Deaf infants and children and find common ground to end the long-time friction between groups who have different philosophies on communication approaches.
http://www.dbcusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=12
However, in the Milwaukee article, a DBC spokeperson indicates there is more to DBC than the promotion of ASL alone.
“‘The two groups will bring their competing agendas to Milwaukee in separate national conferences this week: one that views cochlear implants and auditory-based therapies as a way to give children access to the wider world; and the other that sees them as unnecessary and an affront to who deaf people are as individuals.”
“”We’re concerned about the audism behind the implants – this belief that hearing is more advantageous than being deaf. It’s the same as racism,” she said.”
“You’re only learning how to speak, to regurgitate the words, and only a small percentage of deaf people are successful at that,”JS Online: AG Bell and deaf coalition conferences differ on cochlear implants
This contradicts with the mission statement at DBC website, promoting ASL while not opposing speech and listening training, as long as they are partnered with ASL.
I would like to make a recommendation that the DBC leaders work together on making the goals of DBC more consistent to the public and the media.
Clarification: There seems to be a misunderstanding. This’s not a criticism of the DBC’s statements given during the interview. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs and these opinions are valid, whether we agree with them or not.. All I am asking for is consistency.
I want to emphasize again that DBC did an incredibly wonderful job. Rarely can an organization start from zero to a national conference with hundreds of participants less than one year! Congratulations again!! MZ
Warning: Posting a commenter’s last name is not permitted here. MZ
P.S. I would like to assure everybody that their identities will be kept in confidence. I don’t give out ISPs to the public. MZ
The subject is closed.
Deaf Bilingual Coalition began as a humble group with John Egbert and a handful of Deaf Leaders last July to discuss about promotion of ASL. The idea was sparked by Amy Cohen Efron’s Greatest Irony where hearing babies are encouraged to learn sign language to communicate while their vocal cords are immature, but deaf babies are discouraged to sign even though their vocal cords aren’t developed, too. Since then, it had experienced a rapid growth over the first year and conducted four educational rallies. Shy of its first anniversary, DBC just completed hosting a successful national conference, attracting well-known and respected speakers and hundreds of participants. Congratulations, DBC!
From the beginning, DBC had said its agenda is to promote ASL for deaf babies. Later it expanded to include deaf children:
DBC stands by its mission and continues to promote a clear vision that we support ALL Deaf infants and children to have access to ASL from birth and to be fluent in ASL and English (bilingual). DBC is not against speech and listening training as long as it is partnered with ASL. DBC’s goal is to educate those who impact the lives of Deaf infants and children and find common ground to end the long-time friction between groups who have different philosophies on communication approaches.
http://www.dbcusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=12
However, in the Milwaukee article, a DBC spokeperson indicates there is more to DBC than the promotion of ASL alone.
“‘The two groups will bring their competing agendas to Milwaukee in separate national conferences this week: one that views cochlear implants and auditory-based therapies as a way to give children access to the wider world; and the other that sees them as unnecessary and an affront to who deaf people are as individuals.”
“”We’re concerned about the audism behind the implants – this belief that hearing is more advantageous than being deaf. It’s the same as racism,” she said.”
“You’re only learning how to speak, to regurgitate the words, and only a small percentage of deaf people are successful at that,”JS Online: AG Bell and deaf coalition conferences differ on cochlear implants
This contradicts with the mission statement at DBC website, promoting ASL while not opposing speech and listening training, as long as they are partnered with ASL.
I would like to make a recommendation that the DBC leaders work together on making the goals of DBC more consistent to the public and the media.
Clarification: There seems to be a misunderstanding. This’s not a criticism of the DBC’s statements given during the interview. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs and these opinions are valid, whether we agree with them or not.. All I am asking for is consistency.
I want to emphasize again that DBC did an incredibly wonderful job. Rarely can an organization start from zero to a national conference with hundreds of participants less than one year! Congratulations again!! MZ
Warning: Posting a commenter’s last name is not permitted here. MZ
P.S. I would like to assure everybody that their identities will be kept in confidence. I don’t give out ISPs to the public. MZ
The subject is closed.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Thank you for making this public!
DBC needs to stay to their original agenda– promoting ASL for deaf babies.
ASL for ALL babies and children is not feasible as there are a lot of us, parents of deaf children, who prefer to make our own decisions on how to raise our own children. Advocating ASL even with speech and AVT would be excellent, but to say ASL for ALL deaf babies AND children WITH messages linking auditory therapy and cochlear implants to racism is way overboard!
I yearn to see for a middle ground with messages that say something like ASL for the youth and hearing aids and cochlear implants, speech therapy and/or AVT are welcome!
My ASL child is doing so well with CI and AVT. He has ASL, so what is SO wrong with giving him the gift of sound, the gift of gained access to the world? I think they see my child as a mixed breed. A mulatto. Not pure enough. Well, too bad, it is MY child and I chose to raise him this way because I want him to have more opportunities. I do not want him to end up stuck working at a school for the Deaf, or in a Deaf related field if that is not who he really is. With gained speech ad auditory skills, he can venture out and be more of what he was born to be. The best part of it all is that he is culturally Deaf, still! Wow. What is so wrong about that!? It is just their inner agenda trickling out of their original inent of promoting ASL for all deaf babies.
The DBC core leaders seem not to have any inkling of the real world and this may be their demise, unless they cease from linking the parents’ desire to give their children gained access to the greater world to racism. That’s so Deaf-supremacist. That’s bad news. They need to get their act together asap or atleast rarrange their core leaders for the sake of balance in views.
Mishka, thanks for the blog. I can see you do care about our Deaf community.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:48 am
That is political suicide and it will hurt us more than AG Bell people.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Gotcha, MZ. That is what I have been saying along… focus on the mission, leave out the negative parts, no attacking AGBell, etc.
But oh well. Hopefully, DBC will listen… but I guess right now, they are all fired up so they might not listen.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I’m with you! Great post
June 30th, 2008 at 10:54 am
How come ur blog isnt linked to Deaf Village? I think it would do a greater good by reaching out to all kinds of deaf/hoh people.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Anna S, it seems that you lack education about Deaf children and their future and you just made some offensive remarks about us, Deaf people. It is worthless to have a debate with you due to your arrogance.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Dr. Hocokak left very good comments on Amy’s blog which you could read them… http://blog.deafread.com/abcohende/2008/06/27/message-to-dbc/
June 30th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Hi Mishka,
On this we can agree completely. When a new parent sees what looks like full support for what they want for their child, then they find out how unsupportive it is when they also want the implant, that will do more damage than anything.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with BOTH ASL and the CI together.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:14 am
I’m glad you also see a problem with the message that DBC is sending to the public. The amount of benefit from speech training is so different now with CIs than it was in the past. We need to look to the future, and not let the past drag us down.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:15 am
This is not a criticism of DBC. I think it had done a terrific job so far.. very impressive for an organization less than one year. I am only asking that the messages of DBC be clear and consistent.
Many Deaf people are not happy with the increasing emphasis on speech and aural training, prefering a total bi-bi program as they see it more fitting for deaf children. They are entitled to their opinions, whether we agree with them or not. Just like with AGB’s rigid policy against ASL with deaf children.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Mishka, what is AGB’s policy about ASL? I’m curious.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Ron–
I am as Deaf as you are. Five generations. My forefathers went through the system as you and I did. I am sorry my message was offending to you. Truly, not my intention to do so. The Deaf community is diverse and I do expect my views to be attacked by my own people.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I agree, MZ.
They do send mixed messages. Just take a look at Jack’s Eyes’ vlogs and even the DBC members acknowledged his messages – and supported him.
They are to be complimented for all the hard work and starting up an organization run by Deaf in such a short time! That is really something!
But unfortunately I just do not agree with how they have been operating and spreading information outside of their mission statement as I’ve indicated on Amy Cohen Efron’s blog.
I do hope they take your inputs to heart.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Mishka,
Why don’t you just join DBC and help give feedback rather than make Blog posts like this. Or perhaps if your so passionate about making sure DBC is on the right track..establish a chapter in your home area. I am kind of tired of you blogging complaints when you could be proactive and be on DBC team or something.
Just my two cents
Todd
June 30th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Mishka,
I do not recall AGB as an organization saying theyre aganist ASL. Maybe some of the members are. But as an organization they promote listening and speaking and if parents want sign language or ASL they will give the proper referral.
Wouldn’t it be neat if AG Bell would refer the parents to DBC? DBC as it’s infance has lots of room to grow. I am all for DBC as long as they are not against anything but for ASL.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Oh crap, my haste leads to waste. For #15, DBC at it’s infancy has lots of room to grow.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Todd, all I am asking that they be consistent with their messages. There is nothing wrong with this reasonable request.
If they don’t like cochlear implants and oracy, that’s fine because they do have the right to express their opinions.
It’s best that DBC not send out confusing messages. That’s all I am saying.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Anna, AGBell is strongly opposed to the usage of ASL with its oral deaf children. It’s expressed in its guidelines.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Gotcha, anna s. Same here… I’d be for DBC, but *shrug*
AGBell is NOT against ASL… it just PROMOTES listening and speaking and says that sign languages are just option… same as DBC saying speaking/listening as an option. In fact, when I sent in the application for my son to attend Youth Leadership camp, which is sponsored by AGBell’s chapter in Indiana (Hear Indiana) and I immedately got an email asking me if my son needed an interpreter at the camp.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I can understand that we’re tender from the 2006 Gallaudet protest. We all know too well that one of the protest’s utmost challenges was keeping the message unified and clear.
This is good of Mishka Zena to realize this – and early. Mishka Zena recognizes DBC as a great organization – though young. As they’re building the organization’s underlying foundations, DBC has accomplished a great deal already!
I hope that DBC and its supporters doesn’t interpret this message as criticism– but as constructive feedback. She wouldn’t have posted this if she did not care about DBC’s message. I applaud Mishka Zena for being proactive by keeping DBC in CHECK! We fare better when we work together!
June 30th, 2008 at 11:42 am
I know some Deaf people of generations of Deaf families don’t support ASL and tend to avoid sending their Deaf children to Deaf schools. Being a Deaf person of Deaf generations doesn’t necessarily make that person an expert of ASL and Deaf issues.
I am not sure if you are actually a Deaf person because respondents tend to use fake names or pretend that they are Deaf and ASL users. That is why I am not sure if it is true about your Deaf generations. I would appreciate if you are able to avoid making more damages in our Deaf community. Thank you.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:46 am
AG Bell is not against ASL, is that a fact for sure? Please check with their organization and its history thoroughly.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:46 am
It’s what many have been seeing for a long time, what starts out as a message of equality, ends up with the same old status quo argument of orals versus sign in one form or another, what it means is John’s group was infiltrated by radical deaf who hate CI’s posing as advocates of ASL also, but then showing true colours by opposing the ‘also’ !
The A G Bell versus DBC is not conducive to our access as deaf people, that’s the problem. If they tried talking instead of confronting, it might get somewhere because we all we do not want to see children polarised of view, so another generation takes on the fight afterwards… Let’s end this war now.
A G Bell shutting off physically a walkway between the two warring parties, was depressing to see as well, it can only provide more fuel to the extreme views. Is there such a thing as a moderate group who can call these two sides together and lock them in a room until they come out with some sort of compromise ?
Where is Kissinger when you need him !
June 30th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
WHOA! Wait a minute.
I understand Mishka Zena’s intentions.
1. When an individual expresses their opinion on print, to the reporter, blog comments, or in person that is not the same as DBC’s. This individual is entitled to that opinion.
For example: Joe Doe believes that cochlear implants are not necessary for deaf babies.
2. An organization who values using ASL from the start and using ASL will guarantee success for a lifetime.
For example: DBC website which is very clear about their mission.
3. This same individual, Joe Doe still believes that cochlear implants are not necessary,and wants deaf babies to learn ASL. That individual is part of DBC, and maybe a leader of the DBC movement.
For example: Joe Doe is one of the member of DBC and he is very vocal with his opinions on various blogs.
4. An individual’s beliefs and values contradict with DBC’s website. That creates confusing messages.
What is Miskha was saying that if there were so many individuals in the DBC share same value as Joe Doe, then DBC needs to update their website to match the majority of individuals’ values and beliefs.
No more mixed messages.
DBC website is very clear that they are not against speaking and listening, they want to incorporate American Sign Language. No where on the DBC website say anything about cochlear implants. So therefore, does that mean DBC is against cochlear implants, because several individuals who are very involved with DBC committee are very vocal of their opinions?
It is best to for DBC to be open about their organization’s feelings about C.I, regardless what other people think or not. That will be less conflicting and confusing.
That’s why Mishka and I are confused with mixed messages.
DBC – what is your real agenda? Be open and honest. What does your members really want? Then revise your website that is reflective to your members’ values and beliefs.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I think the fault here lies not with DBC, but with the media.
DBC has tried hard to side-step around the cochlear implant issue since its founding–it does NOT want to have a position on cochlear implants because that’s not the main mission. Children with and without CIs are still denied access to ASL, so that’s the problem DBC is trying to solve.
However, the media and AGBell keep framing the debate around whether CIs should be used, instead of whether to use ASL. While DBC Core Members do have opinions about CIs (such as Lentz’s quote above), the general consensus is that CI is NOT the issue here. Unfortunately, that’s how the media makes it out to be.
Your analysis of Lentz’s quote is off. She doesn’t speak against speech or listening training, “You’re only learning how to speak, to regurgitate the words, and only a small percentage of deaf people are successful at that,”
She said “you’re ONLY learning how to speak.” That’s not bilingualism. If ASL was included in the curriculum, as it should be, then that’s the solution DBC is looking for.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Bystander, I understand what you are saying. John Egbert’s blog has been anti-AGBell, and Jack’s Eye has been anti-CI, to name several. So we get mixed messages, yup all right, and that lead us to make our differing opinions. If we remember, John E. did attack deficit thinkers (of which I am one, I guess, in many peoples’ eyes ;o) )… I could name a few more details.
No wonder there are mixed messages. If focusing on postives only, none of this would have happened and DBC would have been more successful than it is now.
But then I could be wrong.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Adam, okay but can you explain this part – ella’s reference to audism and racism?
That has nothing to do with bilingualism and ASL.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Yes, the DBC website does mention CIs. It is mentioned in one of the testimonials of DBC members, in which a hearing parent discusses her choice not to “drill a hole” in her deaf child’s head.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
For the clarification(#2), I could see that DBC just committed political suicide, not Mishka.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I think I am beginning to understand the confusion…as explained by bystander.
If DBC wants to be open and honest with how they feel about CIs, then they should be allowed to. Whether we like it or not, they should so they don’t need to hide their feelings. Ok, fine.
It should reflect their mission statement to match their beliefs and values.
Thanks to the commenters for clarifying this to me…
June 30th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
i am starting to see it now. . . like what iammine said, DBC’s mission should not be mixed because of some core members’ personal opinions. The core team should unite and keep some of their personal issues separate from dbc.
OR
if dbc is actually against cochlear implants, make it loud and clear.
*shrug* (like what Karen would do, haha)
June 30th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
peeking in,
Sure, here’s my take on the audism quote. It’s quite appropriate to use the word “audism” when talking about the oral approach. The oral approach is based on a perspective that deaf people are deficient in language and need to speak just like hearing people (and this is, of course, an incredibly difficult process which deprives the deaf child of its Deaf culture). It’s rooted in the subconscious belief that deaf people aren’t as worthy because they can’t hear–audism.
A bilingual approach which allows ASL will incorporate a much lesser degree of audism–or none!
Again, DBC has worked hard to make very little talk about CIs, because that is not the issue–the other side does a very good job of forcing the issue to be about CIs (a tool) instead of about language (a fundamental human need).
June 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Thanks, Adam. How many parents with no knowledge about the Deaf Culture understood that? How did they take her message? It did not sound like she was forced to talk about CI, but actually wanted to talk about it. You could sense it in her statement. She could have left it alone at “We aren’t concerned with cochlear implants per se” and then go into details about benefits of ASL and so on.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Why pick on DBC? Why not pick on the inconsistencies of AGB?
“Inside the convention, Bell members offered a very different view, claiming that studies show children who use sign language exclusively have much lower literacy than children who have received hearing aids and speech education.”
Bollocks.
“Catherine Murphy, director of communications, said the walkway was closed not at their request, but by the convention center. Murphy stressed that the convention had provided sign language interpreters and had exhibition booths devoted to American Sign Language.”
Signing Deaf people were booted from their VA conference. Relying on Gallaudet name alone does not constitute accommodation.
“A.G. Bell’s position is that we’re not against sign language,” she said. “We’re for choices.”
The winnner! This is what you should’ve gone after.
What u did was to invite the losers from DeafVillage here. They wanted to see DBC fail, in fact, all Deaf people fail cuz of their pessimistic outlook in life. Whine whine whine.
Lame.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
adam…the elephant in the room is implanted. trying to ignore it is only making it… bigger
and i think the more important question is – why is DBC trying to make CIs a non-issue, even though students with CIs are now students in nearly all, if not all, deaf bilingual schools nationwide?
June 30th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Hi, yes I wonder if dbc has a well-balanced members in there like teachers who work in deaf contained classrooms in public schools or educators in the mainstream settings. That’s where a lot of deaf children are struggling and they have ci so this is where we need to make sure that the focus is at these children. Also I suggested that dbc make some connections with ci corporations to develop relationship and to see if ci corps would be receptive in working with dbc and refer info and be pro asl and incorporate bilinguism for deaf children. Also someone mentioned that dbc should also try to get agbell to work with them if agbell is willing to open their ears or eyes to them. To me this will be a success story of dbc.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Good point, Raychelle…since the number of children receiving CIs is growing, we need to take it into consideration, acknowledging that it is NOT going anywhere. We could make ASL and CI work together.
Mike, read MZ’s blog CAREFULLY next time… you totally missed her point.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
drmzz – I totally agree about AGB’s inconsistencies. No arguments from me there…
I do wish for DBC to be consistence with their messages, unlike AGBell.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
deafmommie, I believe AGBell would be willing to work with DBC if DBC ceased its offensive mode. So to me, it is up to DBC to step up to its plate and stop throwing darts at AGBell, and find a common ground to agree on.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Hmmmm… once DBC comes clean like JD said, it could open up a more positive relationship (in public relations) between hearing parents, AGBell, medical field, and DBC.
And it could help CIers to feel less threatened by the deaf community and help Deaf people feel less threatened by CIers.
I know not everyone agrees, but it could open up more possibilities once DBC states its position on CIs.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
drmzz,
You make excellent points about AGBell’s inconsistencies. Inconsistency of message is exactly what is being discussed here.
DBC can do better than AGBell by having a consistent message and sticking to what the majority of members in the organization want expressed. Right now, DBC appears to be the sounding board of a few core members’ views.
With a consistent message instead, DBC can begin to have a powerful message. Marketing is probably DBC’s weakest point, and the message sent out publicly has the strongest impact on people. DBC has to understand its target audience, the hearing parents of deaf babies, because they are the decision-makers, period. Not the doctors or the audiologists or the Deaf community. Forget about US having anything to do with deciding an individual deaf child’s communication mode.
However, as the d/Deaf community we can have some influence thru DBC if the organization focuses on its mission and understands its target audience. We d/Deaf are NOT the target audience.
Thanks for pointing out that DBC isn’t the only one with an inconsistent message. DBC is a young organization, and are learning things as they go. It’s accomplished a great deal in a very short time, and its the dues-paying members who make up the entire organization that need to speak up about what exactly is DBC’s message.
BTW, there are many of us readers who want to see DBC succeed, myself included. Many of us understand AGBell’s tactics and audism. Your very words, “losers from DV”, “pessimistic outlook in life”, etc, are not going to win fans to DBC’s cause. Please try to refrain from the name-calling and focus on the subject being discussed here.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Yup… believe it or not, I’d like to see DBC to succeed. I just don’t agree with the way DBC is run, that is all, since it veers away from its mission statement a lot, especially on DeafRead.
Hopefully it will change in the near future.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I think DBC is giving a mixed message as I totally agree with Amy about the first impression. We have to be positive and put the personal attacks aside.
We can’t turn the clock back what AGB did as I’m sure at the time they didn’t know any different cause it wasn’t a big thing till now. I think really DBC needs to stop the nonsense with AGB. As even AGB is humble and I’m sure if DBC has their own mission in a positive way to give people choices either way they want not taking sides and AGB may work with DBC who knows. Everyone of us is different how we want to communicate as you can’t force one in a way to put blame on others. LET it be!!! move forward with positivity then things will work.. We can’t turn the clock back of what others done wrong.. MOVE on DBC!!!
Remember ACCEPTANCE, RESPECT, LOVE…not War
June 30th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Just to respond to dmzz in the broadest sense that I can….. with DBC being a fledgling organization, I think it behooves it (DBC) to smooth out the obvious details of their mission, most especially as it relates to public relations. I don’t think that AGB and DBC are really all that far apart. AGB needs to embrace (they don’t do it nearly enough) ASL as promulgated by DBC on paper and DBC needs to incorporate the central goals of AGB. I think it begins with DBC because it is just learning to walk, so to speak, vs AGB being so deeply entrenched on the American scene because they have far more resources via capital and political muster.
I think, together, the two will have, at long last, finally reached nirvana. Maybe I am being overly simplistic but I truly think it’s as simple as that.
June 30th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Okay, great… glad to see that there is constructive dialogue going on and hopefully DBC would take this into consideration.
Have a good day off to swimming with kids
)
June 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
DBC is playing a game with AGB. tsk..tsk..how unprofessional..tsk tsk..
DBC ought to stop play political…
June 30th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Interesting discussion here and here’s my thoughts:
AGB – 120 years old
DBC – 1 year old
Give them a break. DBC leaders need to be applauded for their hard work. They eventually made our discussion happen. If not for DBC, we will be doing nothing but simply watching AGB dominate even more.
It is time for us to appreciate our own Deaf people’s hard work – recognize their work to make them feel good. They did it with THEIR OWN MONEY AND TIME. AGBell pay their people to do the work.
THANK YOU DBC!!
June 30th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
My question is.. how does the hearing parents know what DBC is talking about at the conference if they not have any sign language skills?? wasn’t there an interpreter there for them… to help both ways not one way.. I would think the majority of the audience are deaf with ASL.. I could be wrong.. I’m the type of person like to help others not attack them for their wrong doings but make things smoother and positive…
Like we go to the store with your kid and your kid wants one type of brand and you don’t like it.. are you gonna rat on the other brand you don’t like?? I doubt it.. Acceptance..
Just a thought,
June 30th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Ooops, I need to add “…..as it relates to public relations AND “the CI issue. Add AVT and the other stuff and there you have it!”.
Ummm, Paotie, as much as I like your style of writing, a lot of it’s content isn’t helping much here.
June 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Anna s now playing a rough game of politics with the comment, she gets retard. She destroyed his son own decision because her son never chose CI.
June 30th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Wow, ChrisH, that’s pretty inane. Hope you’re not a father just yet…..
June 30th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
ChrisH, please no personal attack on other commenters. Address to the topic, not the person. Thank you.
June 30th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Early Intervention Best Practice Model
c. Bilingual/Bicultural (ASL/ESL),
http://www.agbell.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?p=EI_Best_Practice_Model
Mishka. Thanks you. off topic
June 30th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Chris, too bad they don’t practice what they preach. Remember the Pepsi Cola fiasco where they rebuked the company for showing ASL actors? They showed their real colors, as usual.
June 30th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
The DBC has done A LOT in only 1 year…from a vlog to a full convention with 500-700 people…and recognized by the NAD…wow!
Still, they need to set up some sort of a PR committee…for dealing with the MEDIA…no more interviews with ignorant reporters…direct all media to one spoke person or something like that…and have the mission statement clearly shown everywhere…
This is the same problem as the Gallaudet protest…deaf people and the media are not able to communicate with each other effectively…personally, I believe it is more of a problem on the media’s end…
This makes me wonder about the “other side” of everything I read in the papers or see on TV…the media in this country is grossly irresponsible…
June 30th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Any new organisation almost invariably goes through trials and tribulations for the time being. What the DBC needs right now is a position paper and publish it on its website.
June 30th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Good start, Jean and may I add: Publish/promulgate it on the website for feedback and fine-tuning…
June 30th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Good start, Jean and may I add: Publish/promulgate it on the website for feedback and fine-tuning…Merci…
June 30th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Mishka,
I agree that their response to the ad was a bit overboard, but their point was that if there’s a deaf role on TV or in the movies, it’s always someone signing despite the fact that only about 5-10% of the deaf/hoh population signs.
Name one deaf character on TV or in the movies that’s deaf but doesn’t sign.
To use this particular example, despite their wrongheadness, as evidence of AGBell’s disapproval towards ASL is very misleading at the least.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
E, this is just one of many examples. *laughing*
There were several deaf people with CI on TV. One was shown last summer in All My Children and the deaf child ended up getting a cochlear implant. In fact, the program American Gladiators has a deaf person with cochlear implant.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
the pro-Oral, pro-ASL controversity: the biggest waste of time in the history of Deafness, Deafhood.
until i actually see a joint venture with AGB and DBC (or NAD), you all failed.
/of course.
June 30th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Well, dog food, that possibility is a good one; I just think that most folks haven’t yet seriously thought through the possibility f this venture. It’s a whole lot easier than the way things are now……
June 30th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I just got back from a long drive from Milwaukee and read this post.
Since I am so tired and wondered if I should have any comments since there is so many different opinions in this comments.
But I feel that I need to say this;
DBC is all about language advocacy
While AGBell is all about auditory advocacy
Please let’s look at the big picture about Deaf babies.
Why are we having problems since 1880 when sign language was disregarded and replaced with oral only method?
Please focus on why or how we can have a normal child, deaf or hearing.
I will be happy to have an open public forum with the media about this issue(oral only or bilingual) with AGBell if bilingual or oral only should be or not to be for Deaf babies and children in schools.
Please do what is right for Deaf babies, not what you THINK is right.
I dare you to create this public forum between DBC and AGBell for what is best for Deaf babies.
And I guarantee you that AGBell will not do it!!!!!!!!!
John Egbert
June 30th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
with that state of mind, mr egbert, i gurantee you that AGB wont waste time with anyone who’s agressive in bringing them down instead of working with them with a gentle air.
i won’t want to work with an angry, bitter, old man who won’t take things any other way but his own.
/enjoy your rice pudding and go to bed.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
DBC — Many thanks and great job!! Let’s roll. DBC is getting stronger than ever! One year ago DBC was born — today this organization is still alive and kicking …. hard! When and where will there be the next ABG’s convention? Let’s follow them on the way! Nah … I don’t think it is a good idea … isn’t it?
~
June 30th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Dog Food,….? Why is your name dog food?
Deaf community that cares Deaf Babies know what kind of person you are anyway,…..
So Deaf babies are not important but yourself (dog food) and your opinion?
Yes, we care about Deaf babies and seems you rather be aggressive about people that cares.
If you want to work against Deaf Babies’ needs then find another place to be that focus on self-interest ideology such as yourself on this blogsite.
Deafread.com cares about Deaf Babies!!!!
P.S. you know where to go…..dv
June 30th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Mr. Egbert, I never said i was angst D/deaf babies. Don’t put your words in my mouth just like the AVT people did to you.
I’m angst your fury and backlash angst AGBell. My opinion is simply that your passion is in the right place and your reactions are sometimes immature. It’s really that simple.
I should hope you don’t have this delusion that you’re speaking for the entire community of DeafRead which I am also part of, whether you like it or not.
So, would you take my invitation to tone down the mixed messages, put aside what misgivings you seem to have with the AVT approach, and reason with honey to the fact that you’re all about language, not ASL only?
June 30th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Curious as to how many of the commenters here hgave deaf/Deaf children?
Maybe just 5 percent. Interesting to see how many of you are fighting against each other over children that aren’t yours.
Being a parent to a deaf child changes the person. At least it did for me. I was a strong-Deaf pro-residential school, and would growl if a hearing person calls me hearing impaired. I’ve changed a lot due to age, experience, and having deaf children.
ChrisH, I challenge you to a videophone conversation with me. Interested? (o:
John Egbert, I applaud you for the compassionate words you have spread across the nation advocating for ASL for deaf babies. Go rest, you need that good night’s sleep.
MZ, this blog of yours sparked much zeal among the readers including me. The original message you came up has evolved into the same endgame.
Let’s see what DBC would come up with in the next few days or weeks. A position paper is a good idea.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Dog food
I will take your invitation to tone down if you set up a public forum with AGBell and DBC to solve this misunderstanding about auditory and language ideology for Deaf babies and which is more important.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Hi there,
We just got here in Windsor, Ontario from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
I read some people who made some comments that I find are not proper.
I am very pleased with Mishka for providing her input. It shows that she cares about babies and children the most. That is a very healthy discussion and feedback. But some people have made unfortunate discussion that I find are irrelevant and unhealthy.
In fact, DBC’s mission is all about language rights for babies and children. I agree with John Egbert. I find him a very gentle and respect man. People, who attack him, earn NO respect from me! John makes a very clear message is taht DBC is all about language advocacy. It promotes all Deaf children to use bilingual approach to enhance their language skills and their life. That is what DBC is all about. DBC encourages all babies and children (with or without CI, HA, AVT programs, etc) to use ASL in education system. DBC has never stated that it wants to remove CI, HA, AVT programs from them. People, who said otherwise, are false and misleading.
Media does not make clear information and it has caused people to make up their views based on “out of context”. People have accused Ella of making the statement. That is out of context. That is not fair for Ella and DBC core members.
By the way, DBC convention is the best of all. I look forward to a many more of it around the world! I want to congratulate DBC core members and its members for their hard work to make it possible for everyone.
I will make a vlog soon…
Deafchip
June 30th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Thanks for suggesting what the next step is, Mr. Egbert. I’m glad you know what to do now about this “misunderstanding”.
You really don’t need an agreement with me to get your point across, right? obviously I’m not going to stop you from going ahead and starting this with or without me.
good luck; god bless you for all you do.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Anna S,
Thank you for your consideration about my need to rest.
But Deaf babies have been waiting for 128 years and I am nearly 61 years old and soon to be in the ground 6 feet. My priority for Deaf babies IS BEING CONTROLLED from my heart from years of learning from Deaf people’s experience in the community about the wrong ideology from organizations such as AGBell have ruined their life.
Simple to say…
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
BECAUSE I WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT…. SAYING…..SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE D O N E.
SO I SAY………DO IT!
June 30th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Deafchip
no, it’s not always clear. I applaud you for your efforts and glad that it is much clearer to you.
/god is real; i just dont believe everything they say in church.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
just wanted to ask some gentle questions:
“organizations such as AGBell have ruined their lives”
so far, all i hear is AGBell. where are the other contenders? is it just AGBell? what about ignorance from hearing professionals? does the fault also go to our president who has to weight our oil crisis instead of our needs? the list goes on and on in terms of what’s bothering me about your “AGBell only” agenda. This confuses me and adds to the mixed messages you send out.
Surely there has to be more to this whole scheme of things than just a successful old organization that chose not to communicate openly to you?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:03 am
John Egbert,
You are our inspiration. I have known you as a gentle and loving man since I first met you on DeafRead.
Get a real good vacation
and beat my tan! 
July 1st, 2008 at 12:57 am
Dog food,
Sorry,
I should have said AGBell and its “hegemony” associates.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:36 am
John,
Whoa, getting upset and telling someone to go to dv. Think about what you just said. Believe it or not those who disagreed with you do care about deaf babies.
It does not matter if people like you or not and vise versa people were concerned about mixed messages with DBC.
You do need a vacation. Think about what you just said. Everything you say will be scrutinized because you are running DBC.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:19 am
My jaw fell open at John Egbert’s angry comments… that is not a way to earn the points…telling one to go to Deaf Village, etc. Remember, everyone has his and her own perspective, and if one does not like it, well, LET IT BE. There are plenty of people on your (John Egbert) side… from what one person in IN told me, more than 500 people attended DBC, which is a VERY good number for a one-year-old organization. As I said last year to you, I am urging you to think of getting a spokesperson who has public relations training (I am sure anyone would love to volunteer for you.) I agree with the idea of exposing the deaf babies to visual/signed languages to get their cognitive abilities going, meaning making sure that the medical profession is educated in giving options to the parents, not only limited to a few options. However, I fully support the parents’ right to make the decision, even if we don’t agree with.
Pluz, I thought there was a constructive dialogue on MZ’s blog at the beginning and I DO (hey, that is my perspective, period, and we have to agree to disagree here) believe that DBC NEEDS a spokesperson. I know you said that DBC had several (core members) but so far, negative. If tone down negativism a bit, DBC could go further.
anna s, I have two deaf children… one in ISD and another in mainstream (will be part time student at ISD in the upcoming fall, for electives like gym, ASL/Deaf Studies and Vocational Technology.)
So, please think about delegating the publicity responsibilty to a person with publicity background so that you could focus your energies on DBC.
I know this will fall on your “deaf” ears, but at least I know many commenters will read this and agree with me and of course other commenters will disagree with me… just perspectives.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:59 am
One soap opera and a reality TV show?
What about prime time? What about movies?
There may be few examples, but the signers are in TV and film more often by a wide margin. Such TV shows and movies like ER, Weeds, Jericho, CSI, Law and Order, Picket Fences, Reasonable Doubts, Beauty and the Beast, There will be Blood, etc. etc.
You still haven’t addressed my point that your citing this Pepsi-Cola fiasco as an example of AG Bell’s hatred of sign language is misleading.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:08 am
John, how about finding a liaison person/trainer who could communicate with the medical professions (not only AGBell)? Going to hospitals, giving workshops on how to provide options in the hearing screenings, visit audiology offices, etc.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:49 am
e, it’s how they responded to the pepsi with the signing characters. If signing wasn’t an issue to them, they would have said nothing and just let the commercial be the way it was.
Anyway, John – I see you are upset with some of us.
Please do know that we are concerned even if we disagree on some things.
There are certain times to address issues at the right time.
At this point and not being around DR a lot, I get negative vibes coming from DBC, especially at Jack’s Eyes.
Like MishkaZena said, people do have the right to express their thoughts and feelings.
You expressed your anger which is your every right but is that how we want the parents to see?
In my public speaking courses, we were taught to always always consider the target audience and their “What is it in for me?” mentality. Too much emotion will drown them out. I am learning this the hard way myself as some of you may know my biggest beef is with the access issues. That is my passion right now. I demonstrated a lot of emotions, especially anger, and did anyone listen to me? Nope. Less emotion and gather sources to back up what you are saying will get attention.
What do hearing parents of deaf want to know and hear? What would it take for them to go to the next level? At this point, do they need to know about the 128 years? Their child(ren) has/have just been recently around. What does this have to do with them? Those are just a few questions I have in mind as far as analyzing your target audience – hearing parents with no knowledge of the Deaf Culture and its history. It’s equally important not to overwhelm them with too much information.
I can see that from those who attended, like deafchip, said nothing but positive things. That’s great!
The deaf audience is pretty easy – interpreters, parents who are already exposed to the deaf culture, CODAs, etc… those are great for your support.
Again, we are offering different perspectives that you can challenge in the most productive way, if you choose to, that is. Do try not to perceive them as personal attacks and address them to the best of your ability.
I do wish you best of luck and as I have said earlier, DBC does have a lot of potentials.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:55 am
This is exactly what I’m talking about when you see comments from John Eggbert spewing out of his mouth. And he’s called humbled? Caring? And he calls people Deficit Thinkers and Sicko. And he looks for someone to blame: AGB. And, he goes around being nasty and telling people to go to Deaf Village. The media and the mainstream is going to say, uh uh…this guy is certifiable.
John, you’re not helping your organization at all!
You are actually hurting DBC, more than you realize.
I wrote a post that pretty much speaks for itself on how the weekend went. I don’t think it was what DBC had in mind. So, it’s time for you people to decide whether you really want DBC to succeed or not.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:57 am
iammine, that was a very good comment, discussing the target audiences. That is why I suggested a liasion person/trainer from DBC to give mini-workshops at the hospitals where hearing screenings take place, etc….where hearing parents often are first given the news about their child/children’s hearing loss.
Well, John, good luck.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:02 am
Yeah, Karen – that’s a great suggestion, too!
July 1st, 2008 at 9:11 am
Candy, enuff!!!!!!!!! shudda up!!! and leave our John Egbert ALONE!!!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 9:55 am
BigD,
do you believe everything they tell you in church?
July 1st, 2008 at 10:04 am
Deaf Bilingual Coalition to Meet in Milwaukee – Genuine Advocates for Deaf Children Rallying for Deaf Children’s Rights to Acquire Language Through American Sign Language
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=8442388&nav=menu216_17_12
July 1st, 2008 at 10:27 am
Once again Karen Myers is making off the wall comments.
I agree with John E. completely.
People forget what the oralist schools (supported by AGB) did to us, the Deaf community, for many years. (i.e. slapped our hands with a big ruler if we were found to be signing, denying our rights to marry other deaf people, etc. etc.)
I am ashamed of people like Mayers and others (dogfood?- really, you pick an appropriate name for yourself) who like to be accessible and accommodating to the AGB, when they (AGB) have done nothing to move away from their overall philosophy regarding Deaf people (can any one say Super Bowl Pepsi commercial?-Or how about the Marriott Hotel incident?).
John E …you rock…you have the support of the majority of the Deaf community world wide.
Any group who has done this much in a short time has to have a great deal of support.
Please don’t let these personal attacks on you stop you!
July 1st, 2008 at 10:36 am
Shrugging myself knowing that the AG Bell made the first offensive! AG Bell did started made NOT very nice welcome by block the stooopid wall! It shows more offensive attitude! Nothing new about AG Bell!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 10:38 am
IT’S FOR OUR FUTURE DEAF BABIES/CHILDREN!!! NOT FOR US!!!! it’s our job to fight for them…THINK about them…LOOK at them!!!! DBC, thanks so much!!! we support DBC ALL THE WAY!!!! WE ARE STRONG!!!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 10:45 am
“People forget what the oralist schools (supported by AGB) did to us, the Deaf community, for many years. (i.e. slapped our hands with a big ruler if we were found to be signing, denying our rights to marry other deaf people, etc. etc.)”
Times have changed, good sir. You sound like a World War 2 solider who hasn’t realized that the war’s over.
Am I the only one who realized that there’s two sides to this controversity and accept that both are strong to stand by their point and beliefs? Most of the comments left here, sound like remarks to discredit your opponent’s stance on things.
To help you understand my feedback (personal attacks??) I won’t deny that there’s a need for babies to learn ASL. I also wont deny that there’s a need for babies to learn hearing and speaking because that ability is there for alot of babies too.
In the end, this whole controversity is like 2 religions battling it out in the name of the same god. I can taste that metallic flavor of irony.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:54 am
hands waving in the air….DBC!! ASL!! we are strong, strong, strong!! we support DBC all the way!!! \../,
July 1st, 2008 at 11:17 am
NO, Dog food, times have not change….most of the AGB people still belive in oralism… and continue to have this Anti-ASL attitude. I know this because I am a memebr of AGB. The proof is in their attitude towards the Pepsi ad.
And I really do not understand where you are coming from when you keep making statements that are blantly not true, i.e. “In the end, this whole controversity is like 2 religions battling it out in the name of the same god. I can taste that metallic flavor of irony.”
From what I can see -the vast,overwhelming majority of Deaf people support the DBC and John E.
Perhaps you are so bother at the truth of this -so much that you chose a name “dog food” that is low on the pole-to identify yourself.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:48 am
Greetings brothers and sisters. This is my first blog in this room. Some of you might know me from Amy Cohen Enfron’s blog. I see multiple great discussions here in this blog and appreciated each one of them. However I wanted to clear few things up, if I may.
Having been on the inside of DBC, serving as a core group as well as several different duties including public relations and State chapter kit. I was DBC’s strategist during my four months tenure with DBC up until a week before the conference in Milwaukee. I was also appointed as the head of public media. In short, I was there, down deep within DBC core member and I saw dents every where. Regardless I assisted them in every imaginable ways with hope they’ll gain better understanding of holistic approach. I can tell everybody in this room something. I kept records of everything including meetings via AIM where they shared their personal insights on different matters. At times oralism and CI were discussed by the inner circle. At one point a core member made humorous but degradatory comments about drilling a hole in Deaf child’s head. As biased as it was I listened anyway and kept them in my records. I hold such evidence, in writing. I also hold evidence, in writing, covering other core members who admitted they were against CI and Oralism but they knew better than to say it outloud. That was when I realized something important. If these ASL Powerhouse were capable of biased views against oralism and CI then they certainly are capable of biased views against bilingualism and people who practice bilingual on equal basis. Surely enough, I was condemned by DBC leader for discussing DBC business in details via literacy. I was asked not to discuss anything on email because the leader could not process her thoughts in literacy. She went on to instruct me to use email only to set up VP appointments. It was a clear sign of opression. Growing up deaf, carrying seventh generation of deafness in the family with my two deaf boys carrying the 8th label, I’ve had enough of opressions and was not about to be opressed again, especially from DBC leader who represented Deafhood and ASL Powerhouse. I tore down the wall long time ago when I learned the meaning of illusion. As soon as I learned the meaning of illusion and how it worked, the surrounding walls disappeared. I discovered my liberty that day. I promised myself I’d never be without liberty again when the internet arrived along with the wonders of email. Want to take email privileges away from me? You will have to do it over my dead body. I resigned from DBC in order to protect my rights. Bilingualism? Unfortunately it is not happening over there within DBC.
As soon as I resigned from DBC I met other bilingual people who told me they were ushered out as well. Surprised? You bet I was. What? I asked myself. But I thought DBC spelled Bilingual!
The remaining majority of DBC leaders are made of Deafhood (ASL powerhouse) with the exception for one or two core members who are very level headed bilingual advocates. Fortunately for us, at this point, DBC is only a namesake that is being ruled by ASL Powerhouse majority. DBC started off on the right footing but has since then been tripped and stumbled by biased individuals out to promote self-interests, that of Deafhood and ASL powerhouse. It is our duty to correct them and remind them the meaning of bilingual. DBC is only a name, a brand name but what is more important here is the contents. At this point the content is evidently ASL powerhouse and Deafhood.
How do I know? Approximately one week after I resigned from DBC, up to the day before the conference began one DBC core group asked me to help with power point presentation because this person valued my input. In this Power Point ASL was noted everywhere with little or no regards for English language. I then encouraged greater emphasis for wholeness, that of medium. And then I noticed ‘Deafhood’ as part of their power point presentation. I quickly asked that it be removed because we were talking about Deaf babies here, whose parents are not yet registered with. This core member agreed and told me that one leader of DBC inisited that Deafhood subject be included in the power point. I will not mention names but I have everything documented and recorded in writing. I don’t know if the rest of DBC folks were aware of my involvement up until the day before the conference but I didn’t care. I helped anyway because it was the right thing to do. I did it for the sake of Deaf babies.
Regardless I made it known to everybody within DBC that I will jump right back in as soon as ASL Powerhouse walk out of the door. I do not have any problems with DBC and its underlying messages. The problem lies with ASL powerhouse who found the courage to wear bilingual umbrella in order to infiltrate biased views, that of Deafhood, pro-ASL movement and healthy disdain for oralism and CI. I hold such evidence, in writing and will spill the beans if that is what it takes to reclaim DBC and Bilingualism. And it is not a threat. It’s a reminder for everybody to practice what they preach, including us. When we say we sponsor bilingualism then we’d better mean it.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:53 am
Readers,
Please forgive me for standing up too strongly.
It is true that there are strategies to achieve the dream that the Deaf Community been looking for in the past 100 years. It is my mentality of this “Enough is Enough” that I need to be patience to succeed the needs for Deaf babies to get the cognitive development skills from 0 to 3 years of age.
Karen Mayes, I still care for you and will hug you to show my forgiveness for how I have been. It is just that my number one priority is Deaf babies and I will be willing to die if AGBell and its associates accept ASL for Deaf babies from 0 to 3 years old and they can train speech after their daily 6 hour education environment if parents wishes.
Everyone else, DBC is a language advocacy group and AGBell is an auditory advocacy group.
DBC and many Deaf people in the community thinks that the child’s mind is more important than the ability to have speech.
And let me emphasize that DBC is not against ci or speech or hearing aids, but unfortunately, AGBell tells parents that ASL will cause a Deaf child to have much lower literacy which is a lie.
DBC knows that Deaf Community will prevail because they have the TRUTH which is why AGBell keeps having WALLS around the parents from knowing the TRUTH.
John Egbert
July 1st, 2008 at 12:00 pm
To Dr Hocokan:
While I respect your views- I do not subcribe to it.
Those “ASL Powerhouse” do speak for me and the vast majority in the Deaf World. For far too long we have had our language barred from us,our civil rights taken away from us and our diginty stripped from us. This attitude is still in play (today) in groups such as the AGB.
And we will not stopped supporting the DBC.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Additionally…. DBC wanted everyody to believe that B spelled bilingual when it went to Milwaukee. I believed until I was deeply entrenched within DBC and saw too much. DBC advertised itself as bilingual movement but what actually happened in Milwaukee turned out differently. AG Bell, hearing parents and the media took a peek into DBC’s jar and saw ASL everywhere, without equal footing and air time for English language. Bilingual? They clearly don’t see it and I can understand why. I was deeply involved with DBC core group up until the day before the conference so I know exactly what happened and what went wrong. My eyes are clearly on ASL Powerhouse, that of Deafhood. They need to be held accountable since they wore bilingual umbrella with hidden agendas to promote pro-ASL movement and Deafhood in name of Deaf children.
Come to think of it. They (ASL powerhouse) literally sold Deaf children’s souls for the sake of their own self-interests.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
And agian-I do not subcribe to your side of what happened.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Please see this web site- it shows what the majority of Deaf people feel about this issue:
http://puredeaf.blogspot.com/2008/06/dbc-agb-photo.html
thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
sorry about that-worng e-mail address.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Please see this web site:
http://puredeaf.blogspot.com/2008/06/dbc-agb-photo.html
It shows how the majority of Deaf people feel.
Thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pm
please go to Deafread.com, and see the Deaf Tank cartoon. It shows how the majority of Deaf people feel about this.
Thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
It’s the one that is called
“DBC Block AGB’s TANKS” (PHOTO)
Pure Deaf
July 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. What I see is that there are two different messages, agendas and audiences. One agenda is against AG Bell, with the message that ASL needs to be part of a child’s life. The audience is the Deaf Community, many of whom feel personally damaged by AG Bell. Many Deaf feel that if the hearing community can just see the truth, they will feel just as outraged, and will no longer support AG Bell.
The other agenda is to promote ASL bilingually with English, with the message that the child will have the greatest chance at language with a bilingual approach. This audience is the hearing parents of deaf babies.
You are not going to reach hearing parents with the first agenda. Too much anger and conflict. Your message actually has gotten out to parents. Unfortunately, most of them do not flock to your cause, but run in the opposite direction.
DBC needs to clearly pick one agenda, message and audience. It cannot continue to try to force AG Bell to change if its goals are to reach out to hearing parents. Let go of the AG Bell agenda, and concentrate on helping parents.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:31 pm
All, we seem to have the same conclusion: DBC needs a public relations person who can consistently reinforce the DBC position that ASL added to the AVT program and any other oral/auditory programs is the best approach, i.e., we feel a comprehensive, multidisciplinary approach to language learning in the Deaf infant and child is the wisest approach; and that parents need to be informed of this.
However, the issue became unneccessarily complicated with insertions of Deaf Culture and Deafhood concepts, and these are not appropriate for new parents of deaf babies. It takes a very wise and knowledgeable PR person to give these parents what they need for support and knowledge without confusing them about deaf identity issues.
AGBell has a professional and highly skilled PR organization and one of the ways we see this in operation is that they are too smart to bother acknowledging us or enter into any dialogue.
Let’s not waste time on criticizing DBC or AGB. There is a very important concept here we need to develop: a BALANCED, COMPREHENSIVE AND SUPPORTIVE APPROACH FOR PARENTS AND DEAF BABIES.
That’s all.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Dr. Hocokan, thank you for this insight.
I think that is what many of us are seeing from the beginning. ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood. Actually, I’m not surprised.
But, I do thank you for being honest and bringing it all out. Because if we want DBC to be another resource for parents to look to, we need to know what went wrong and to fix it, if we can.
I dunno, but, looks like the damage is done and it might actually take years to fix it.
I saw that early on in Ella’s post and even Joey’s post. Saw that clearly in many of the comments over the blogs. I don’t know why we have certain people bringing it up at the final moments before the weekend to spring certain posts that could have been done months before.
Pretty bad strategy.
What a waste of time and money.
All in the name of Deafhood!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pm
To KL:
You seemed not to get it:
We would like to “let go”. But it’s the AGB people who have the most damaged (or tired to). Look at the Pepsi ad, for example. It’s the AGB people who are doing the damage. We are left responding and trying to get the truth out there.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Hi Brother John. Barry here. I, too will hug you simply because I know you are a human being too. I’ve enjoyed working with you for the past four months during my tenure with DBC. I know I’ve continuted so much towards DBC. It does not matter if you want to acknowledge it but down deep on the inside I feel very good about the contribution I made towards, not you or DBC but towards Deaf children. I respect you for who you are. It is not you or DBC that steered wrong. It is these ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood who tried to promote more than what they really needed to.
I see that you have not lost your insight on the TRUTH. That’s good to know. I remain loyal to the same cause. I will not say that it is your cause because it belongs to Deaf children, not us.
Hi Blue. I respect your view and thank you for respecting mine. Mind you, I never asked you to subscribe to my views. The view belongs to me just as your view belongs to you.
It is fine if you want ASL Powerhouse to speak for you. You crossed the line when you spoke for the rest of majority of Deaf world. I am part of the Deaf World and you do not speak for me. Sorry to disappoint you but these ASL Powerhouse do not represent me.
Being the seventh generation of deafness in my family I don’t doubt the fact that our language was barred from us for too long, infringing on our civil rights, which stripped us of dignity. I don’t doubt the fact that this attitude is still at play today. The point is, we (Deaf people) know and understand this all too well. It is THEM (hearing parents and the general public) that do not understand and do not see it and do not feel it. We could shout and rally all year long and do it for hundreds of years but the message still will not connect with hearing parents and the general public.
The point is, do we advertise them (our opponent, AG Bell in your argument) as the culprit or do we take the high road and shed better images for ourselves, generating important first impressions for the hearing parents and the rest of the world? Do we show them our dilgent side and show them the society WE REPRESENT?
Remember the importance of reversal psychology. You are who you are, depending on how you present yourself. Show up disappointed or outraged with $2.00 t-shirts with slogans on it… you’ll be viewed as the ‘failure’ and perhaps even a maniac. Instead, how about showing up as a confident person who is content with himself / herself and our lives. Bring your happy face and wear your best shirt or suit. Be quick to greet others. Be quick to listen and be slow to speak. This is how you make powerful first impression. They will come to you naturally and try to get to know who you are and learn what you do for living. As you introduce yourself this way you will amaze them with the power of empowerment.
I do this type of approach every day and every where I go. Nobody will ever see me in a $2.00 t-shirt. I always wear neastly ironed Stafford or Oxford button shirts, even to work at the ranch. I wear my best shirt and my best hat every where I go. I attract everybody at the stores. large or small. They come to me all the time to comment on how much they liked my hat. I build custom buckaroo hats for $500 each and I have many customers lined up to buy them from all over the place. I believe I am about 6 months behind but yet I’m keeping up. I have 16 new customers from this month ALONE. They are customers from England, Australia, Canada, NY, Florida, Georgia and pretty much every where in the West. They see my work (hat) here and there. They see my work on the internet. They hear about me but little do they know that I’m Deaf until they try to contact me. Once they learn that I’m Deaf it really pushed them over the line because they want a special hat that is built by a very capable Deaf person. Down deep on the inside they are glad to witness “successful” deaf story. They want to believe that we are capable of success. But in order to help them believe that we are capable of success we, first, must demonstrate ourselves diligently and wear our best shirt.
The same is true for DBC and Deaf people every where.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pm
The Blues,
Two different fights. You can keep bashing your head against AGB, and in my opinion, get nowhere. You can keep telling parents how evil AGB is, and they will keep running away from you, or you can quit fighting them, ignore them, and concentrate on helping parents find a way to give their children both English and ASL. Most hearing parents are unwilling to give up verbal English, and are not going to be supportive of an ASL only message, as long as they can clearly see that with the implant, they can successfully give their children the ability to access verbal English.
So pick a direction. Which one is more important? Helping parents teach their children bilingually or showing them how much AGB hurt Deaf people in the past?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Oh please… “Barry”…please spare us of your long stories (while they can be entertaining-what do they have to do with issues?)
You have yet to offer any evidence of what you have stated here-furthermore, you seemed not to acknowledge the fact the majority of Deaf people STILL support the DBC.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
kl:
YOU are not make my judge.
HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING i POSTED?
I do’nt think so!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Dr. Hocokan,
I was there. I have to be blunt with you is that your comment had nothing to do with DBC last weekend.
I see everyone there as part of diversity and it did promote both of English and ASL equally. We just try to emphasize more on ASL because English Language is already a POWERHOUSE everywhere and we are trying to pull ASL up to English equally.
Your comment was not what I saw last weekend.
Deafchip
July 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Well, apparently there are two agendas here… Bilingualism/ASL and AGB/Audism. Both are legitimate. I guess the question remains.. Should they be combined together or not?
If you want to reach out to Deaf people, yes, that can be done as many Deaf people feel this way. There is a deep-rooted anger about the oppression of language and culture, both which need to be validated. They also support Bilingualism.
However, if one wants to reach out to the hearing parents of deaf babies/children and educate them, they won’t be receptive to these types of messages.
So it depends who DBC is trying to address to.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Gotcha John E. Even I may not agree with everything, especially with Deafhood, I am for increasing awareness of the options to the parents.
Okay, I am outta here. I am overlooking the blues’ comment since the commenter has no idea who I am. John E. knows fully what I am talking about.
Ciao. Enjoy your summer.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Karen Mayes, I know you send your Deaf child to ISD for some classes, but I wonder why can’t that child be a full-time student of ISD? Can you explain your reasons to us?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Ron and others, let’s not get personal and question other deaf parents’ decision where to send their child or whether to get their child a CI or not. This divides the deaf community and brings innocent children into the picture. Yes, innocent children are being targeted because of their parents’ decisions. Focus on the person, not their children, please.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Oh sure… my son’s first lanugage is English (he is proficient in English… you could ask Barb Digi if you wish, since she knows him pretty well.) Believe it or not, ISD prefers this way, that he attends part-time to gain more fluency in ASL. Also, he is a strong aural learner, preferring hearing aids and FM system (he is not a CIer)… not a visual learner. I did ask for a full time enrollment at ISD and ISD said no… only part time. So, maybe in the near future, who knows?
He will start his part time education at ISD in the upcoming fall.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Ron, I can tell you why my Deaf son wants to go hearing summer high school again next year while he do STILL want to finish 4 years of high school in MSD (Missouri School for the Deaf)!!! I prefer send you personal email or vp you..
July 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
thank you for clearing it up for me.
The mission of the members of DBC is to promote ASL, Deafhood, and kick down those AGB foes.
I prefer not to see you guys advocating under the farce of “language awareness” when it’s actually about addressing your beef with AGBell. I don’t want parents to see that.
I look forward to your next move. Good luck finding the appropriate PR.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Oh, I don’t mind sharing. I know it is not related to this posting’s theme, but in a way it is… to bilingism, how it works, etc. Bi Bi works for my daughter because she is a visual learner but not for my son right now, educationally speaking. Works culturally for my both kids. That is a difference.
Okay… ta-ta… off to pool ;o)
July 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Copied and pasted my comment that I left on Candy’s blog:
“Before I go, I see that some people are emotional, quick to nitpick/bash the other people who try to see more than one perspective to get a bigger picture. It is OK to see positives and negatives to get a better understanding and to be able to help out… Iammine did a good job explaining the target audience on MZ’s blog, and other people acknowledge there is a need for a person with experience in publicity to be brought into DBC.
I sense that John E. is a human being trying to do everything and he has some help… even from Deafhood leaders who I don’t feel comfortable with because they should not impose Deafhood’s philosophy on DBC’s mission statement. I am GLAD that Tami Hooser is involved because she represents a well-balanced viewpoint (she is a hearing mother of a deaf daughter who is at college now. She was very involved in Indiana School for the Deaf.) Hopefully, the tides will shift (the tides always shift, anyway.)”
July 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Thank you, Dr. Hocokan.
We must take the DBC wall down.
We must build a new coalition and conduct in a right direction in the name of:
July 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pm
AS I always knew that any children was NOT born deaf then later become more deaf, their parents had always find some excuses to support AG Bell more MORE fight against DBC in some reasons!!! So their kids who were NOT born deaf, they will get more patting heads from AG Bell!
July 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
oh no Karen Myers- I DO KNOW who you are. I have reading alot of blogs for about 3-4 years and I have seen you print alot of blogs responses. I know you very well and in fact you and I have butted many times.
I know all about your kids and all- because you have mentioned thme in the past- so don’t assume anything regarding me.
You have said a lot of dumb, off the wall things in the past-this is just the lastest.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Precisely MZ. Just what I told DBC for many months. Told them that marketing niches for Deaf people will not work for hearing parents so they needed to decide who they want to market their messages to. They (ASL Powerhouse) made a decision to stick with Deafhood and pro-ASL movement, which attracted deaf people. It didn’t attract hearing parents nor did it attract media giants.
To ‘The Blue’… the name itself speaks in volumes. Blue as in sad, a reflection of self. I pity you. I will not spare you of long literacy. These literacy hurts your brain so much because you are obviously on the very right, far from the medium, that of Bilingualism. Don’t like it, read else where. We’re here to debate the best interest of Deaf children. Don’t cap us as in opression.
Based on your comments it is you who did not read every comments and digested as whole. It’s that obvious. As for the evidnce, I will present them in matter of time, if these ASL Powerhouse do not restore DBC back to bilingual advocates that we are. When push comes to shove, believe me, I will spill the beans for everybody to see. You just wait. I have these evidences at my disposal in the event ASL Powerhouse decide to cling onto their power within DBC. Those that are on the inside knows what I am capable of doing here. I got involved with DBC, deep enough to disclose everything we don’t want AG Bell and AVT to know, which is why I’m hanging onto ‘evidences’ with hope that these ASL powerhouses will come to their senses. If that does not work, in matter of time I shall tip the pot over, so to speak and spill the full truth. Simply put. They (ASL powerhouse) has to go. Their mindset has to go. We are here to reclaim bilingualism and to restore it because it’s so precious to us just as ASL alone is precious to you.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Agreed, Karen!
Deafhood is another illusion.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Blues, I feel sorry for you… since you carry a lot of anger and hatred. Hope you find peace in yourself. By the way, my last name is spelled as MAYES and I have been on DR for 2 years, not 3 to 4 years.
)
July 1st, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I am an AG Bell member with a deaf child and have never been discouraged from using sign language. They have made it very clear to me that I should use what is right for my child and my family.
I HAVE been learning ASL and my daughter signs. I wish more would realize that both “sides” have something to offer to us parents. Honestly I would have loved to practice signing with some of the people there for DBC, but they just seemed so angry and confrontational that they drove us away.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Folks,
David Reynolds and I will speak at NAD next week in New Orleans on Friday, July 11th at 8:30 am.
Please come to New Orleans and see for yourself about DBC and its mission.
Our topic will be Deaf babies and State Associations working with DBC State Chapters across the country to set up workshops on EHDI.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
The whole purpose of going to Miwaukee was to challenge AG Bell. We weren’t going there to have a pic nic.
Also, take a look at the DBC press release:
http://sev.prnewswire.com/education/20080606/DC2453706062008-1.html
It’s all there in black and white. The DBC clearly supports bilingualism, and it’s absurd for someone to try to distort the valuable work that DBC has done for their own petty personal reasons.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:54 pm
To tell you my truth feelings that I feel that AG Bell should belongs to “hard of hearing” organization! Why I said that??? It is because Mabel Bell was not born deaf.. She came deaf later and she is very strong involved in hard of hearing organization. Go read down below:
Mabel Gardiner Hubbard Bell was the deaf wife of Alexander Graham Bell. She was born 25 November 1857 as Mabel Gardiner Hubbard and deafened at age 4 or 5 from scarlet fever. Her father was instrumental in the founding of the National Geographic Society.
His efforts to find an oral education for her helped inspire the establishment of the Clarke School for the Deaf at Northampton, Massachusetts, in 1867, where Mabel was one of its first pupils. Alexander Graham Bell came to this school as a speech teacher, eventually giving private speech lessons to Mabel. A courtship ensued, and they married in 1877, soon after his invention of the telephone.
She assisted her husband in his less strenuous research, using her inherited wealth to pay for it, and helped found the New York League for the Hard of Hearing. She was a stubborn total oralist, even more so than her husband, who would use sign language and fingerspelling with other deaf people, but she never would. Mabel survived her husband by only one year, passing away 3 January 1923. A book-length biography of her is Mabel Bell: Alexander’s Silent Partner (1984).
July 1st, 2008 at 1:54 pm
To It is just an illusion!
Trust me on this one. DBC’s wall is only an illusion. It’s not even there. These ASL powerhouse want us to believe that the walls exist because they want to instill fears in our head and make us believe that the world is against us and trying to destroy our language. It’s a myth. Yuo can try and guess who built these walls. People from Deafhood and ASL Powerhouse did. They have been doing it for years and years. As soon as we help them understand that these walls are only illusions in their head then it’ll begin to disappear.
And yes, DBC is only an illusion for the moment, a jar with fancy label which spelled bilingual but it contained wrong contents. It started out with the right content but ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood came and tampered with it, and poisoned it. Regardless I am happy to see that John has not lost his sights on what’s important here. That’s good to know. Perhaps there is hope, still?
Perhaps the damage has been done since DBC screwed up in Milwaukee, producing negative media outlet. If so, we’ll form a new coalition and regulate the movement based on our experience with ASL powerhouse who refused to give English language equal footings and air time. I know, without any doubt we’l be embraced by hearing parents and perhaps even AG Bell in order to discredit DBC. It won’t be that difficult. I’m onbard and I’m prepared to start a new coalition if DBC turns out to be beyond hope.
Mind you, it does not take millions of signers to help hearing parents see and understand us. It only takes one person with the ability to communicate and empower others. It only takes one individual to create the necessary dynamics and change the world for the betterment of Deaf children. You or me or the individual next door could do it. It may make us unpopular among ASL powerhouse but we should not concern ourselves about our popularity. We should be more interested in Deaf children’s access to bilingual approaches, that of ASL and English language.
Coming onboard?
July 1st, 2008 at 2:03 pm
MariMom,
I will apologize on behalf of DBC and ASL Powerhouse who didn’t know any better. I use ASL at home on daily basis with my deaf wife and three children, one of whom is hearing. ASL is a precious language of ours.
Likewise, I decided to resign from DBC as their strategist and head of public media and not attend the conference in Milwaukee because they (ASL Powerhouse) changed the underlying message. The energy didn’t feel right, as you stated, sounding so angry and confrontational. For that, I apologize on behalf of DBC and Deaf People who embrace true spirits of bilingualism.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Candy and Dr. Hocokan
English powerhouse and deafness.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Wow!
MZ, personal bashing towards some of our regular commenters is getting to my nerves.
This has to stop as I am becoming uncomfortable from making comments myself as oe who is for bilingualism advocating the perspectives shared by Dr. H, Mayes, and to name a few.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Frotz published a good posting about DBC… and An American Mom in Tuscany outlines the need for the hospitals to have the resources for new parents. Check them out.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Oops, I mean Drotz, not Frotz
)
July 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Chris H,
Nope. You are wrong already in an instant. I’m for Bilingualism because it means exactly that, ASL and English language. ASL Powerhouse want to separate the two but unfortunately they can’t. Bilingual is a legal term for two languages. In our case it is ASL, a beautiful language we treasure and love plus English language. You can try to to label your opposite as English powerhouse but it simply won’t ring true. We’re brighter than that. You’re also wrong about deafness. I am a human being first before I am anything else. So are you. You’re a human being first before you are anything else. Can’t beat this argument.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:10 pm
to karen Mayes and Dr. Hocokan:
I laughed when you people critiztied me!
FYI:
I chose “the blues” in honor of the bluesman group …those wonderful group of actors .
This shows how desprarte both of you are! I am very happy .
You guys looked very foolish when you said things that both of you have no idea.
Hahaha
Since you have NO evidnece, “Dr.” it is you who must be sad.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Smiling at Blue… the first impression of a person laughing off a serious and important discussion is an indication of misinterpreted figure.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Ahem,
Gosh, I support John Egbert and DBC regardless… It is not yet one year, and wow, they did a lot tho.
I understand about using two languages at the same time, BUT can one use Spanish and English at the same time…I doubt so. It can be done if they had a lot material to use so, or had money for the interepting services.
Now, AGBell uses interpreters sometimes…AND they use the language, English, foremost! They do that to their own benefits, and their eyes are up to the sky, not to the Deaf child’s needs.
Sheesh, wake up, people. AGBell is no saint neither.
Give us a break, and smell the fresh air outside… Btw, I’m going to smell the air right after this!
Cheers
July 1st, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Anna S,
Bashing by some commenters only reveals the truth about who they are. If that’s how they want to be, so be it.
I’ve caught on in the beginning that the message was not Bi Bi but ASL only.
And Dr. Hocokan has spoken the truth (I’m taking his word for now.)
I’m even more surprised that someone is speaking out. More power to him.
If these ASL powerhouse don’t back off, I’d be very interested to see what Dr. Hocokan has to say. It would definitely validate many things that a few of us have suspected for some time now.
I think that it’s ok for them to say, “I goofed.” Mistakes are fixable. Ain’t nothing wrong with it.
I, for one, will not use it as a weapon against the other side. It takes a lot of courage to come out and say you made a mistake. So…
Let’s hope it does come to that.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Whatever, blues… have it your way. I don’t understand why you feel the need to bash us.
Hey to other commenters, it has been a great discussion, and I am glad that we all agreed to disagree and to agree…
Good evening.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Mishka!!!
Great article! Way to present the information in a gentle way to remind them to stick to the agenda. The idea of promoting the two methodologies will go a long way in creating a stronger sense of Community. And I think I’m working towards that…Important post…Jodi
July 1st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Rock on, K.L. *smile*
Mishka…loved comment 114. Jodi
July 1st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Hello, everyone…
I’ve read everything, I mean everything here, Amy Cohen Efron’s blog, and others in regards what DBC stands for.
I would like to thank you, Dr. Hocokan for enlighting us with your insights and experience within DBC Core Team. Your comments made a lot more sense than I thought.
I personally don’t think Deafhood and Deaf Culture shouldn’t be included in DBC since DBC’s goal is aimed at deaf babies only for the first of three years of development. Deafhood and Deaf Culture can come later when deaf babies get older. The operative word is to encourage the hearing parents of deaf babies to take a long look at ASL along other options since the deaf babies don’t have any cognitive skills until the age of 3. Also, I’d like the parents to encourage their children to get involved in the deaf community once they are aware of Deaf Culture and Deafhood. To be honest with you, I’m still learning what is all about Deafhood since it’s kind of new to me. So I believe that Deafhood should NOT be included in DBC’s philosophies. That’s just my opinion. Hey, of course, I still support DBC.
Misha
July 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Mishka,
By the way, I forgot to add one more thing. Great blog, Mishka! It has brought up a several good points along with Amy Efron Cohen’s blog, too.
Misha
July 1st, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Hi Jodi,
You been kinda busy lately? *snort*
Good to see you over here.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
ASLisRisen-
Thanks for the information about Mabel Bell. I was not aware that Alexander was a pedophile. I think AGB should change its name otherwise public may think the organization is encouraging pedophile practice in our country. Now I am sick to my stomach.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Weren’t there any Interpreters available at the DBC conference for hearing parents to absorb all the info.. I guess AGBell does provide Interpreters for ASLer’s sake.. so I think it should work both ways. I know if I was a hearing parents walking into the DBC conference with all the hostile demonstrating against AGBell shows alot and I would feel to backed off and go to some place with positivity. DBC has to be careful if they want to help the hearing parents.
No one is perfect but gotta be gentle with the hearing parents as it’s a whole new unknown world for them to absorb in a short time.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Also I forgot to mention, we can’t turn back the clock of what happened re. AGBell but to provide another outlet for anyone to try not be against each other. The more choices a parent have the better.. just like me having the best of both world – hearing and deaf.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Just a thought to add-
Yes they did…please go and see this…
http://deafchipmunk.com/?p=35
July 1st, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Everybody,
Let’s don’t get carried away by other people’s statements about DBC.
Here is DBC Mission Statement;
About DBC
Our Mission
The Deaf Bilingual Coalition promotes the basic human right of all deaf infants and young children to have access to language and cognitive development through American Sign Language (ASL).
Our Purpose
The main purpose of the Deaf Bilingual Coalition is to emphasize the importance of the social, emotional, linguistic, and cognitive aspects (of ASL) pertaining to early visual language acquisition for all deaf infants and young children.
The secondary purpose is to make the general public aware of the prevalence of misconceptions and misinformation that devalues ASL.
Our Goals
DBC is a community of deaf and hearing people whose goals are to promote language acquisition, social justice, and quality education through the awareness of ASL and its excellence in cultivating the critical intellect of deaf infants and young deaf children.
The Deaf Bilingual Coalition will work to inform parents of deaf children, guardians, teachers of the deaf, doctors, audiologists, government officials, businesses, and other organizations on the importance of ASL in early language acquisition for all deaf infants and young deaf children.
DBC will work to spread awareness of the research that shows that ASL does make significant contribution to the development of literacy skills in both languages, ASL and English.
And lastly, DBC will work in collaboration with others to promote the respect and understanding of ASL.
John Egbert
July 1st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
We need to start a new bilingual movement with a name separate from DBC. DBC is not what we would like to see.
Let’s do it!
July 1st, 2008 at 4:12 pm
According to the mission statement, DBC needs to change its name. It does not promote bilingualism. It only promotes ASL. It should be DASLC.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:13 pm
John Egbert-
I believe you. Babies need to use ASL first to learn English…not other way around. I know all Deaf people want to be proficient in English. I am Deaf and I use ASL but I always want to do well in English too. My English always improve because I use ASL for learning. It works for me so I believe you. I know many of us support bilingualism. What is more is that you wrote a book! I have seen it but we need to talk about ASL and how much ASL impact us to understand English and literacy.
You are my God…smile…not Supreme Being but Human God…me silly.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Yep, Penny AG Bell was a long time pedophile. AG Bell did was very far much more influenced Adolph Hitler to kill so many innocent Deaf babies, many innocent Deaf children and many innocent Deaf adults up in Europe! Know what the Roman Catholic Pope Pius did even supported the Eguenics with the gas that killed them and the Pope did helped some War Criminals Nazi soldiers escaped to South America and USA. AG Bell was a sicko!
July 1st, 2008 at 4:39 pm
ASLisRisen-
I agree with you. In fact, AGB is still doing this today. Yes I mean 2008. They forced tiny babies who just arrived to this planet to be taken to the hospital to get CI. Babies have no way to communicate with audiologists, physicians, and their parents when they go through mapping or in pain. They are forbidden to use their hands which given by God to use for communication and learning. Hands are sin and filthy to AGB members. NAD has ignored AGB’s theory of cleansing. NAD still ignores this widespread abuse in our country. AGB kissfist NAD because they allow AGB to do whatever they want to do with Deaf babies and makes monies out of them. It is true. I am not lying here. Now I am done with school and I hope by fall I can write letters to congressmen and etc about this widespread abuse. It is too bad that many Deaf adults with CI are not doing anything to protect Deaf babies. They should have refused to get CI until there is law protection for Deaf babies but they much prefer to be greedy and be fixed. Shame on them. We should applaud John for doing at least something for Deaf babies…he might not be perfect or to meet everyone’s dream or vision but HE IS DOING SOMETHING whereas Deaf adults with CI are not doing anything!
July 1st, 2008 at 4:57 pm
And some of you wonder why we hearing parents run screaming in frustration away from Deaf Culture straight into the AG Bell front door?
Give it a rest.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Wow Penny! NAD should have more respect the innocent Deaf babies in the first place!! I die HOPE that John Egbert will WAKE NAD up for good! Thanks Penny for your UPDATE info!
July 1st, 2008 at 5:05 pm
K.L. The answer is simple. Deaf Culture has a million of crabs. They have their own theories. Scare? DBC is right now muddy. We are the deaf family. We have our deaf children. You don’t speak for us periodically. We as the parents decide the best education for our deaf children. Not you!
July 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
John,
I just viewed Jay Wyant’s televison news interview with Fox News seen at http://www.agbell.org/DesktopDefault.aspx. I see a leader in a business suit, appearing content with himself and his choice to wear CI and oralism. And then we see you in VLOGs wearing $2.00 t-shirts every where. Nothing wrong with that in my book but in public’s eye, this guy, Jay came out on the top, chuckling with gratitudes towards DBC for free publicity. Jay would not even make it on the news if it were not for DBC’s presence across the street. You see, what you thought would be a bright thing to do, standing up to AG Bell from across the street and allowing Brian Riley to draw a line and declare battle in a letter. All the commotion coming from DBC and ASL Powerhouse generated enough interest in AG Bell’s newly shiny and bright President, Jay Wyant who literally wore business suit and shint shoes. First impression? Jay is a content and happy individual. AG Bell won the media war. The FOX News didn’t call you up for the interview because Jay Wyant’s first impression said it all. Lesson learned? I certainly hope so.
And above all, we are not getting carried away by people’s statements here in this blog. They are here because DBC got carried away by ASL Powerhouse who kidnapped the movement and promoted ASL almost exclusively. End result? The media saw it as friction between ASL versus Oralism / CI. That is why I worked vigorously with DBC during my four months tenture. I saw this disaster coming but yet I was cut off before I could prevent this train from the collision. The damage has been done. Now pick yourself up John and wake up. Rid yourself and the movement of Deafhood movement. Rid yourself of ASL powerhouse. Stick to the facts, that of basics, bilingualism.
Understand what ticks and what does not tick in media field. Brian obviously screwed up, big time. He does not know media language as he claim to. Why? He emailed me and admitted that he used GOOGLE search engine to pick up popular terms in his letters for the media. What Brian didn’t realize was our population represented 80% workforce, 15% middle class and 5% affluent. Therefore choice of words found in GOOGLE reflected the same. 80% of the terms Brian picked off from GOOGLE came from the workforce who are not Media savvy people. 15% of the terms came from middle class people, which of are moderate media savvy people. 5% of the terms came from the affluent who probably had more media savviness. Unfortunately Brian relied on GOOGLE results for letters he prepared for the media produced. End result? DBC didn’t get the media attention it needed in Milwaukee. Lessons learned? I certainly hope so.
I am glad to see DBC’s Mission Statement again. Glad to see that it has remained intact. Not sure why or how you allowed Deafhood and ASL Powerhouse to infiltrate itself into the conference. Lessons learned? I certainly hope so.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:12 pm
We as PARENTS, not just deaf parents make the educational decisions for our children. I am not trying to speak for anyone but myself. I have no problem with my deaf daughter learning both ASL and English. But I will defend my right to be her parent and make the decisions. I do not abdicate that right to anyone. Including the Deaf Community. Telling hearing parents that the implant is equal to torture is complete bull. And it does nothing but make relations between the Deaf Community and hearing parents more difficult than ever.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Wow. Away from the blogs for a day, and there’s already 159 comments!
From personal experience, I have to say that yes, DBC’s messages are conflicting. They need to decide on their target audience, definitely. I have told them that, and it was basically implied that I am colonalized because I grew up mainstreamed. What’s more, because I feel quite comfortable with the English language, is more evidence to them that I am colonalized.
If DBC truly supported bilingualism, they would not have an issue with my proficiency with the English language.
I also have to add that I find it quite interesting that in John Egbert’s #154 comment, he pasted DBC’s mission, goals, etc… ASL was mentioned 8 times, whereas English was only mentioned ONCE. Is that reflective of the spirit of bilingualism? Not to me. English and ASL should be on the equal footing – since that is what bilingualism means.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Hi Mishka,
Wow, fascinating blog entry you have, and generated the record high comments. Amazing!
I checked DBCUSA.org website for any updates about the conference. There were two vlogs based on the opening ceremony, and two summaries of keynote presentations from Dr. Kannapell and Dr. Scoggins. Lastly, but not the least, the infamous “first impression” editorial, “Gearing Up” written by Brian Riley.
There are only five entries on DBCUSA.org and it has not been updated since then.
I am very curious about the summaries of four other keynote presentations, especially Dr. MJ Bienvenu, Dr. Gertz and Dr. Boudreault, and lastly, Dr. Kuntze. I am also wondering about more vlogs during the Celebration Rally. What does Celebration Rally consists? Posters? ASL stories? What happened during the Summerfest on Lake Michigan? It is all quiet, and leaving most of us in dark.
All I hear about DBC conference was wonderful, as DeafChipmunk eloquently said on his vlog. I am pleased to hear that it went so well inside.
Remember, it is the public audience (including me, and many others, especially parents) who are watching from outside, and all we get was tepid news articles, infamous ‘first-impression’ editorial, Lentz’ quote been taken out of context, and lastly, Jay Wyant’s over 5 minute interview with Fox Channel in Milwaukee.
All I hear from DBC through media channels are not consistent with the actual mission statement.
It is indeed a Public Relations nightmare.
Lots of people are visiting DBCUSA.org website, and kept seeing same outdated information.
Yes, it is a grassroots volunteer-based organization, and the best investment to keep an organization is PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Public relations is the number one powerhouse vehicle of an organization, along with membership recruitment.
You cannot recruit members without public relations.
Last question I have for the DBC, your mission and vision – is it accurately representative to your members’ values and belief systems?
My answer, I seriously doubt it. Because the mission and vision statement is all smoke-screen and the transparency of your organization shows more towards to your members’ values and belief systems – is American Sign Language, Anti-AG Bell and Anti-CI.
That’s what I am seeing.
Do you see it too?
If not, convince me that I am wrong.
Amy Cohen Efron
July 1st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Precisely KL. It’s the ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood movement that’s driving hearing parents away. Precisely what happened in Milwaukee.
Rightfully so, the real power belongs to the PARENTS. Based on radical movement I witnessed on the inside of DBC during my tenure with them I understood why it was going to backfire and surely enough it did.
Telling hearing parents that the implant is equal to torture does not do anything productive for ASL movement and the relationship between the Deaf Community and hearing parents. Thanks to ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood the Mississippi river just doubled in size, widening the gap between us and hearing parents.
I just did an experiment and asked my two deaf boys, age 13 and 9 to watch some videos. I showed them VLOGs from DBC’s web site, done in sign language and then showed them boring uncaptioned television interview between FOX News and Jay. I didn’t explain anything to them. I wanted their honest opinion and allowed the boys to watch all videos. Then I asked them who they thought had won the battle. DBC or AGB. Both boys pointed their fingers to Jay. I asked why. Looked happy. Appeared very successful. And the boys asked if I knew that JAY was wearing CI. I said yes. They asked, does that mean he’s deaf too? I said yes, he’s deaf. I asked again, who won the media battle. Both deaf boys who communicate solely by ASL pointed their fingers at Jay again even though they could not understand him. Both boys saw him as a successful icon something they didn’t see in the conference VLOGs. The hearing parents will see no differently. This tells me we’re going to need a completely different approach than what was promoted by ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Dr. Hocokan’s recent comment by using an informal experiment by showing both of his sons (who are deaf) DBC’s vlogs and FoxTV’s interview with Jay Wyant. It blew my mind away.
That is exactly what I am trying to say about the FIRST IMPRESSION.
DBC – revamp your own organization within inside, and build your Public Relations Team from the start with very qualified and talented PR team who knows about the public perception, how the audience tick, and many more.
That is the first step you need to do immediately.
No more tepid damage control approaches – its not working. It is way too transparent and it is not working. Who is the SPOKESPERSON of DBC?
Amy Cohen Efron
July 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pm
How can we dance and celebrate to show happy face in front of the whole wide world while knowing that many Deaf babies are forbidden to use ASL to learn English? How? It would be hypocrite if we pretend to be “happy and dancing” just because we have ASL. It is not enough! We need to be very serious and inform the TRUTH that deaf babies are deprived to language today. Parents who also denied that CI is not torture method while FDA has WARNED lists of side effects and still Parents don’t think side effects are considered torture on tiny babies? What if we send their hearing babies to change appearance to make a model look…is that a torture? Betcha. fix us? not a torture? Parents are non sense thinkers or they hate their deaf babies so much because they can’t hear their voices and want to fix them. Selfish Selifsh Selfish!
July 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Penny,
I understand what you are saying, but if we want hearing parents to come over to our side, we gotta show them our success stories. Where are our success stories?
To the hearing parents, success stories mean ASL Deaf who are proficient with written English, and lead very successful, professional lives.
Penny, if I came up to you, and screamed about how horrible you are, because you sign, and that you MUST speak, because all ASL users cannot read and use SSI… would you accept what I say? Of course you would not. And rightfully so, you would say that I am a bigoted audist.
So, why is DBC treating people the way that DBC does not like to be treated? Hearing AND Deaf people are not going to listen to people who say one thing, and do another. If we want hearing people, especially parents, to have deaf children use ASL, we need to show them WHY it is important for the children to have ASL.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm
gee penny,
how is it selfish to want their kids to know their language?
I LOVE shint shoes!
July 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Testing 123 123
July 1st, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Penny,
It is this very ideology that you just expressed that will drive hearing parents in the opposite direction towards AGBell, not DBC. Hearing parents are seeing angry Deaf faces and are being told that their deaf children belong to the Deaf community, which is anathema to the idea of parenthood in the first place. Their child, hearing or deaf, belongs to the parents first and foremost, because the parents bear the responsibilities of raising that kid, not the Deaf community, not the African-American community, not the church, not the schools, etc and certainly not the government.
Every parent, hearing or deaf, wants to see his child happy and confident. DBC is not projecting this image for the deaf child, and this is what DR Hocokan just illustrated.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Hey Amy Cohen Efron,
That’s what I’ve been saying all along. I agree with you all the way.
Marketing to the hearing parents of deaf babies is the main key for the DBC’s works.
When I read Ella Lentz’s comment in the Milwaukee website/newspaper, all I am saying is Oh, No! This will drive many hearing parents of deaf babies away! It was purely out of the context.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Penny,
I am not even going to bother responding to that last post. All I want to know, is what do you expect from all the parents who have already chosen implants for their kids? For parents who are already committed to teaching their children verbal and written English? Do you simply scream at them that they are selfish? How do you reach out to them?
Hearing parents value hearing. They will want that for their children. That is natural, not selfish. A message that English can coexist with ASL, and that there are benefits to being bilingual is a good message. A message that trying to give children the gift of hearing is selfish is not going to go over well.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Wow, Dr. Hocokan! That is the most important to point out on the FIRST IMPRESSION! Like Amy Cohen Efron said that I wholeheartedly agreed with.
Also, unfortunately, I agree with Ann_C that angered deaf people would drive the hearing parents to AGBell. It is not so great move. Remember, everyone, the parents of deaf babies are still new to the idea of their babies being deaf. They’re helpless and scared but crave for more information what to do with their babies. That is why Deaf people should be more friendly and somewhat business like.
DBC needs to reword most of statements in Mission Statement as Deaf Pundit pointed out because I’ve noticed more ASL in it than English. That should be on both sides since Deaf can learn English very well by using ASL.
“ASL Powerhouse” and Deafhood should be omitted right away. Like I said both Deafhood and Deaf Culture will come much later when the babies get older as long as their parents encourage them to get involved in Deaf Community.
I’d love to do a vlog of my friend who had encountered a C.I. lady whose parents are very extreme audists. I may ask her to do a guest vlog in my blog and will find somebody to put up the subtitles since I don’t know how to put up the subtitles. I believe that may send possible strong message. Perhaps….
Misha
July 1st, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I do NOT care if some of you did pointed or blame on DBC!! I felt DBC is the best beginning Champ!
AG Bell is a big time looser! I was shocked that there are few interpreters were NOT nueteral at AGB’s hotel (the interpreters should NOT support AG Bell at all). You can find out from the video comments: http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/13476/
Big CONGRATS DBC!!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Amy, who is DBC’s spokesperson? They didn’t have any on the evening of the conference weekend. I doubt they have one yet. Now do you see the problem? Conflicting messages took up on a life of its’ own.
Few weeks ago Ella Lentz asked me to be the head of DBC’s public media and when I started to run the department nobody else within the core group, not even John knew about it. I made numerous inputs for the press release to medias but none of my inputs were taken into account for that final letter to the Media giants. Brian took control of the task and rejected all of my inputs. Tami stood her grounds and defended Brian, failing to realize that I was asked by Ella to direct public media department. So when Brian and Tami rejected ALL of my inputs I had to ask a question. I asked who was in charge of Public Media. Turned out they didn’t know. They didn’t know that Ella and David asked me to take charge of that department. The rest of the core group thought I was in a power struggle so I made a decision to pause everything and waited for Ella and David, known as DE, to acknowledge that they asked me to assume this role. I waited all day while everybody thought I was in some kind of power struggle. Understandably so. Ella finally addressed the matter much later in the evening. She said, in writing, forget who said what. For now Barry is the head of the media. She fell short of acknowledging the fact that she asked me the week before. She was more interested in saving her face because she didn’t let everybody else know about my new role with DBC. Even the founder John didn’t know until I told him. Ella fell short of acknowledging this important fact, placing me in an awkward and embarrasing position. When I demanded further clarification from Ella she told me to cease from discussing via email (literacy) and to use email only to set up VP appointments. When I protested, she cut me off from DBC’s seeworks web site and cut all of my communication with DBC Core members. Opression! Out of all people in the world she practiced opression. And what did John do? Nothing. He just sat there because he was worried that something big was going to spill over and ruin the conference in Milwaukee.
David known as DR jumped in and made degradatory comments as soon as I resigned. Funny thing was he never participated in any of my discussions with DBC. He never complimented or produced positive comments through out my four months tenure with DBC. He was not active in any of the meetings I went to. Never met him and never talked to him through out the entire four months. But as soon as I resigned he jumped in and finally said something. He made degradatory comments towards me and called me a quitter. Cheap shots. He was glad to see me go. He was man of few words until I resigned. Interesting character. Probably because he had problems with literacy and bilingualism and viewed me as a threat. And now John says that he (DR) is one the ASL powerhouse that’s going to represent DBC at NAD. I understand why. DR is going because he has to keep the leashes on John to make sure he does not steer towards true spirits of bilingualism.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
A Deaf Pundit-
I understood that DBC invited six PhDs speakers to the convention. All of them are Deaf and all of them are proficient in English including you too. Isn’t that enough for first time convention? What would you like to see DBC do at the convention? Be specific…list by list. DBC supporters and children showed up where AGB chapters had their meetings. They distributed flyers and kids painted on the car and etc. I was told all of them were friendly and warm and well receptive by public and police officers. What more do you want them to do? AGB (Alexander Graham Bell) were the ones who refused to welcome supporters and children…they called Police on them…blocked walkway…torn flyers…the impression I got from you is that you are not complaining what AGB has done to DBC supporters. Zero. I find this quite fascinating. What have DBC done that made you felt so ashamed? The organization is very new and baby too. I am sure they might have liked to do something differently or to do better…in time they will. Give them a chance. They can’t do everything alone.
When I learned about DBC…I preferred John to form an organization to get congressmen to ban CI on deaf babies/children (not adults). I spoke to two leaders about it last fall. They understood my passion but they explained that DBC purpose is to focus on bilingualism. I said to myself…no…darn but I don’t think I ever talked negative about this organization solely because we have different vision or goals. I admire them to do something about deaf babies. We should give support instead of stabbing them. If it does not meet your vision or goals then do something yourself for Deaf babies.
My understanding is that DBC supporters are not yelling at hearing parents of Deaf children. They are yelling at the SYSTEM!!! They have closed doors on us and it time for us to make noises.
I stayed in Tibet for one month in 1996 and I have seen oppression on Tibetan people. They strongly believe in dialogue but Chinese government took advantage of it and abused many Tibetan people. Tibetans appeared got frustrated and turned into riot against Chinese people few months ago. Many Chinese people got hurt and killed. Now the government listened and invited Tibetans to start dialogue. It is saddened that Tibetans had to start the riot to get them listen to them. No, I do not encourage us to have riot against AGB. I hate seeing anyone to get hurt but if they are not listening then we need to make noises loudly. I mean very loud!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Another thing that AGB is supporting Parents’ choice which it will NOT be good way to encourage because some parents are NOT good parenting of innocent Deaf babies and children! AGB are DUMB! They should know better it depends on individual Deaf babies and children can be more benefit ASL in their own first language!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Penny!! Oh gawd, that’s horrible oppressive against the innocent Deaf babies and Deaf children in Tebet!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:48 pm
ASLisRisen… you are obviously naive. Can’t instill senses into naive people like you. I rest my case.
Penny… six Deaf PhDs were invited to be keynote speakers. They all were Deaf as you pointed out. In public’s view as well as hearing parents’ view they can only see them as biased speakers, simply because they were deaf. They are not the only Deaf people with PhD but yet they were hand picked by Ella, the ASL Powerhouse. I asked Ella to consider Dr. Freeman King, a hearing professor from Utah State University to be part of the keynote speaker because there was no greater hearing Bi-Bi champion than him. I knew him from the 1980 and he is one of the founding father of bi-bi. Guess what? Ella didn’t want a hearing PhD speaker. She made all sort of excuses and dismissed him. I also asked Dr. Freeman to help with press release so that he’ll be able to answer questions for the media if they showed up. He accepted the role and flew into Milwaukee at his own expenses. If, only if DBC agreed to use him then the hearing parents will see that DBC’s selections for keynote speakers are not radically biased. Balance. Important to remember balance when working with hearing parents. Nothing wrong with using Deaf PhDs but we need to include everybody in the process. Dr. Freeman King wanted to help and serve the cause. He asked DR if he could meet with him and the group but his request was largey ignored by the entire group. I just would not give up so I asked him to help with press release in Milwaukee. I hope he was respected by Deafhood and ASL Powerhouse.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Dr H, no wonder you are so upset and not thinking more clear! I have had research AB Bell was hyptonized Adolf Hitler by KILLING so many innocent Deaf babies, children and adults! Now you are wanting to resign from DBC and then join AG BELL, an telephone theft. YOU (Dr H) called me NAIVE, you wrong then YOU ARE totally NAIVE.. AGBELL was HISTORY of the higher chief of Eugenic and was a very bad influenced to Adolf Hitler and some of the Nazi soldiers! I rest my case!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
ASLisRisen,
I don’t know if you’re a parent, but you should try to understand what a job parenting involves. If you review what you just said in #179 comment, you are gonna bring out the mamma bears and the father grizzlies out in hearing parents, believe me. Whether they are hearing or deaf, a parent is gonna tell you to MYOB, this is not YOUR child, but MY child.
You and others have no business telling any parents how to raise a child, period.
Don’t get me wrong, I support bilingualism, ASL AND English, for deaf babies and children. But the minute anybody starts telling parents how to raise THEIR kid, he’s out of their league and, moreover, their trust. Parenting is a huge and demanding job, and any interference with raising THEIR kids is gonna get a rise outta them and asking, You been down that road, raising a kid?
And it doesn’t matter if that kid is deaf or hearing.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Ann C,
I just found out that AG Bell is supporting some (not all) of the parents choice against their own Deaf children who cannot be benefit from oral education! That’s what I was trying to write down, my GAWD my English is NO GOOD because I was RAISED in a very boring ONLY oral education!!!! Seems like you have no heart for some deaf children who cannot be benefit from parent stubbornly forced in a very boring oral education only!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm
ASLisRisen, look who is upset and uttering nonsenses here. Remember, words are like mirrors, a reflection of self.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
“I have had research AB Bell was hyptonized Adolf Hitler by KILLING so many innocent Deaf babies, children and adults! ”
wow… maybe AGBell isn’t at fault.
i’m getting such a kick out of your babbling, AslIsRisen. Keep em coming.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
ASLisRisen,
I was raised oral as well.
And, on the contrary, you express yourself in English very well regardless of what you say.
Which is the point I’m trying to make here, ASL AND English. The deaf child can succeed socially among his deaf peers with ASL and feel at “home”, but he needs the articulate English to succeed in his job, career or business in the hearing world. And the work world is primarily hearing world unfortunately.
It is far better for a deaf child to know BOTH languages than one or the other, and the more articulate he is in both languages, the better success and fulfillment he will experience in his life. Also, such a person will have truly the “best of both worlds”.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pm
“I preferred John to form an organization to get congressmen to ban CI on deaf babies/children (not adults).”
Penny, did i read right that you prefer to ban Cochler Implants on deaf babies?
This has nothing to do with bilingualism and is a totally different agenda. I’d reccomend DBC to embrace the Implant rather than continuing with that kind of ulterior motive.
That ban does not get my vote.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Huh oh… CIs and questioning parents’ right to make the decisions for their child. That is a sure way to turn hearing parents off from the deaf community, since the parents OWN child/children, not other way around.
Well, I agree with Ann_C…she makes a lot of sense, being one of the rational commenters I have come across.
Dr. H., interesting comment… looks like there is more going on in DBC’s core team than we all know… but I’d rather leave at that.
Let’s move on and hopefully the tide will change for DBC, getting more savvy at publicity and politics.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Marimom — Sorry they drove you away. I think it has to do with their facial expression (one of ASL’s own rules). Each language has its own rule. I am sure you are aware of this. They were very determined to work hard to make this DBC conference successful. Best not to take Deaf/HH’s personal. Just go there and …. enjoy the 2nd conference. I am sure the voice interpreters will be provided … I grew up oral until I become 19 and learned ASL at Gallaudet. ASL has changed my life! I had wished to pick up ASL as a young toddler! Anyway again I am so sorry about the recent incident that you went through. (Pardon my few grammar errors here).
Quoted by Marimom,
“Honestly I would have loved to practice signing with some of the people there for DBC, but they just seemed so angry and confrontational that they drove us away”.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm
ASLisRisen-
I did not say Deaf babies were oppressed in Tibet. I was saying that Tibetans were oppressed by the Chinese government. Tibetans believed in dialogue and harmony. When they realized that Chinese government refused to have dialogue with them…Tibetans went for riot. Now the Chinese government says hey! let us talk. I am not sure if Tibetans will earn some freedom. Their language and culture were destroyed in early 30’s I believe. I see this same pattern that AGB is doing to millions of Deaf children today. Being deaf is sin and filthy to AGB eyes.
Dr Hocokan-
Are you xxxxxxxxx? You have to be honest who you are with me. I don’t like lies. I am not a player. I like honest and truth. Lies do not work for me. Thank you.
I understand what you mean about hearing speakers should be involved at the convention. I believe there are hearing people who are educated about ASL, Bi-Bi and our culture. I agree with you 100% that we should include them however DBC has its first convention and we want to impress to the public that Deaf people are smart. They are not idiot or worthless. They have brain. Hello! I even told my Law Professors and Judges that there are some Deaf lawyers and one Deaf woman on honor list at UCLA Law school. They said they never knew about it and was impressed too. They liked my ideas, debates and questions very much and they did notice that I had problems with English. I was not ashamed of it and I was honest with them about it. I told them it was because I spent hours on learning to speak baby words and not use ASL in classrooms for learning. They listened and said very interesting. I think inviting 6 PhD speakers are great idea for the first time convention. For centuries hearing people speak for us. No more. We can do it ourselves. I was disappointed that they did not invite some other speakers who have master degrees because they are smart people too. Some of them spoke up for our community. I decided not to make a big thing out of it. Two reasons…it is a first time convention and secondly I was not able to attend so I told myself to shut up. Smile.
Question for you…do you think you can move on and still give DBC support? Do you think you can show up some meetings in the future…who knows we all can work together? DBC is the only organization who is telling the truth about AGB and Deaf babies. Let us not blew it.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:56 pm
The majority of the Deaf Ph.D./Ed.D. presenters are from California so is DE and Ella.
Ella’s comment in the media wasn’t interpreted out of context. She did actually say those exact words in front of my eyes at a recent convention. They are bad news for promoting ASL/English bilingualism. They have their inner agendas. I KNOW THEM personally. What Dr Hocohkin said what happened before his resignation, not surprising!
We need neutral Deaf leaders that support ASL/English bilingualism without deafhood brainwashing, hatred for AGB, CI, etc. Too bad Freeman King wasnt one of he presenters. He would have been a good balance.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:00 pm
dog food-
Yes I want our country to ban CI on babies and children. When I discussed this with two leaders from DBC they understood my passion but they wanted to stay on bilingualism. I understood and I did not rant and talked bad things about DBC because I agreed with their vision and ideas about Deaf babies’ right to ASL. I need to do on my own like writing letters to congressmen etc and I hope to do it by fall. If you do not agree with this vision then therefore you are purely selfish. You do not care about seeing children crying and those who could not communicate with their parents or audiologists after surgery due to their language has not yet developed. Shame.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Posting the last name of a commenter without permission is NOT allowed here
July 1st, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Penny, you were not paying attention were you? I already introduced myself here in this blog and at http://blog.deafread.com/abcohende/2008/06/27/message-to-dbc/. Look up #109 here in this blog and #73 at other blog where you and I had discussions. I already introduced myself as Barry. I also explained that Hocokan is not a name but Lakota’s definition for complete circle, a medicine wheel and wholeness. I already explained the part about DR, a birthright name given to me by my dear parents. May I suggest that you read a bit more carefully before calling me a liar.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Anyway, it’s not parent’s choice… SOME (but NOT ALL) Parents were just thinking of themselves but not thinking for their child. Some parents cannot expect their child to be PERFECT orally! got it? I rest my case!
July 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Penny, what I want from DBC is for them to listen to people like Dr. Hokocan. There’s a lot more I want, but that pretty much sums it up.
I’ll post more when I have time.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Hocokan-
I didn’t read #73 as you were writing to CDC but I went back there and read it. Yes you did mention your name to John…so many comments here and there. I did not say “You are a liar” I said I do not like lies. I apologized for not reading #73 and forgot that you had mentioned your name to John. My apologies. I mean it. Thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:40 pm
ASLisRisen,
I agree not ALL Parents will think of their child first, ahead of their own interests, but it happens. It also happens with parents of hearing kids who develop speech impediments or psychological problems because the parents think only of themselves.
I understand what you mean about parents who expect their deaf child to be perfectly oral. You and others have a right to be angry at AGBell, an organization which probably influenced your parents’ decision for you to go the oral route. But you’re revisiting your anger (at your own parents’ DUMB decision) upon unsuspecting hearing parents who’ve just learned that their child is deaf and haven’t got a clue to what you’re about. You don’t even know each other, the new parents and you. Why be angry at them?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:11 pm
MZ, great commentary! Whoa such heavy and deep dialogues! It is all good and healthy!
Couple of thoughts here: I do agree that the DBC needs to remain focused on its current mission. As for other issues such as audism, anti-CIs, etc., the DBC needs to refer those issues to the Deafhood file to avoid the confusion. DBC has my support as long as it remains focused on deaf babies accessing to ASL, regardless!
It is certainly my hope to see DBC expand more core leaders with a background similar to the DBC founder, John—coming from hearing parents.
Do you think its time for DBC to change their direction and focus on the activities with the Congress? AGBell will NEVER ever NEVER ever change its mind! Let us move forward and start with a strategy to educate the Congress to fund more dollars into the ASL programs/Deaf Education system! I think everyone would agree that ASL is a language for all deaf babies regardless- that s one common goal we all have here.
Anger towards AGBell is not going to help.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Guess what folks… John is evidently shaken up. He and his so-called Texas friend went right to work and tried to dig up what little dirt they could find on me via internet and posted a new blog here under his AG Bell page. But they could not find dirt on me. He only found articles on my legal battle with neighbor who trespassed on our private property and built and illegal road across my ranch in northern Nevada, in which we won the legal battle. The Sheriff sent me a letter acknowledging their mistake because after all the road was private, not open to public. End result? The community became outraged by this Sheriff and tried to recall him through new election. That was about all John could pull on me but yet it was inappropriate and slanderous. Perhaps he was trying to frighten me so that I won’t spill the full truth about what went on inside DBC when they whined in face of literacy and bilingualism. Well, he just gave me the extra incentive to do it.
Speaking of more opressions, he is quite a character.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Would anyone out there know when we can read the transcripts — or see the videoclips, for that matter — of the presentations by six people.
Very matter-of-factly, I was disappointed that the NAD’s president Bobbie Beth Scoggins’s greetings on June 27th was videotaped for less than 30 seconds.
Deaf history is utmost important. People in the first quarter of the 20th century were very thoughtful enough to document by videotaping George Veditz for Generation X and beyond to view!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:01 am
Penny, I believe you. Apology accepted.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:18 am
lol
What’s new eh?
Dr Hocokan, you’re now a subject of Eggbert’s witchhunt.
Yeah, history repeating itself.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:51 am
Egad, not again.
Next they’ll be tacking Deafhood labels on Dr Hocokan like:
“colonialized”
“deficit thinker”
“sicko”
“psychopath”
Have I left out anything?
Deafhood seems doomed to repeat itself, like history.
*roll of eyes*
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:53 am
Dr Hocokan and John Egbert-
Dr Hocokan- Thank you for accepting my apology.
Now to Dr. Hocokan and John Egbert- May I ask both of you something? Do you think both of you can talk on VP (not through e-mails, please) to solve issues? Both of you are intelligent human beings. I believe and know that both of you can work together since you guys have so much offer to our community. I am sad that things have turned out this way between both of you.
There are so many people are suffering today. Many people are dying everyday in Burma…Zimbawee, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel and other countries. They do not have the same freedom and rights we have here. I hope both of you will be willing to iron things out. You both can hate each other for one hour and then shake hands afterward. Life is too short and we are all adults too. Agree? or is it a no no?
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 am
Gee… I’ve enjoyed reading here.. Honestly I am kinda envious of the wonderful Deaf/HH bloggers and their writing here. Even I am a good reader, I wish I had learned ASL as a young toddler so that I can write beautifully. Plenty ideas and creative thinking I have here. Unfortunately it’s been always trapped inside of my brain –However it will go thru my hands/fingers in ASL or even with my paint brushes! I have thought about doing some paintings related to myself as a Deaf Oralist with English Language barrier growing up. I’ll hush since it is 2 AM now. Sweet Dreams!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 am
Penny… I never say no to dialogue. John has my VP number and knows where to reach me. He and I visited twice via VP. Each time we visited he tried to apply intimidation tactics and make me believe that I should be careful. Initimidation seem to be about all he understood or so it seem. It’s also written all over on his face. Now it’s little wonder why others called him the BULLY. Now I think I understand why. The intimidation effort he tried to pull earlier tonight is one more evidence. Apparently I am not the first and only victim here. According to few comments here he also intimidated others as well. The world needs to know about his eccentric behavior because after all we’re talking about leader of DBC and Deaf Children Advocate.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 am
Dr Hocokan-
I did not realize that both of you had talked twice via VP. I am truly sorry about what happened to both of you and your relationship with other DBC leaders. I still look up to you and others because you guys have so much offer to our community. I have never met John personally but I have always like his dream, vision and ideas. However, thanks for letting me to share my opinions here and Amy Efron Cohen’s blog.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 am
Interesting developments. Fascinating read here and in Amy’s blog/vlog. Although I cannot say this whole thing surprised me at all. For 2 1/2 years I continue to ask this question, “Unity for whom?” Yet, all I see are masks and loaded baggages from some of these people carry. And it’s apparent, except to them. The old ball and chain thing. Dr. Hocokan makes plenty of sense. You have to put things on par between ASL and English for it to be truly a bilingual organization. And core members need to be neutral in respect despite how one may view cochlear implants or communication methods used decided upon by parents.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:56 am
Dr Hocokan,
I never did do any research about you and it was another person that is not involved with DBC.
This person dug up in the internet about you and good enough that she was able to find out your last name.
Since it has not been posted and your concern about anyone knowing more about your character, I deleted it.
DBC has nothing to do with this researching and the person that did the researching was appalled about your character trying to poison DBC and want to destroy some of the innocent core members’ integrity.
John
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:03 am
Dr. Hocokan –
Please go to Deaf Pundit’s blog and be her guest blogger. She invited you to be her guest blogger.
Go for it, Dr. Hocokan.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:38 am
To “Dr” Hocokan:
“Smiling at Blue… the first impression of a person laughing off a serious and important discussion is an indication of misinterpreted figure.”
You must so be desparte to really defelct with a comment that.
You have, as I repeatly stated before, presented NO evidence to support your off-the wall comments.
Next time …start with real evidence.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:38 am
John – I find that hard to believe, and you all of people know better than that. The individuals who we both know were booted out last year, expressed concerns about me going public with the emails (since it involves them as well) because they were afraid that certain core DBC members would do what they are doing to Dr. H.
There was, and apparently still is, a lot of intimidation within DBC. It is very unfortunate that it works with many, and I’m very glad it does not work with Dr. H.
DBC could do great things for deaf children, and for the deaf community by doing effective social change. But what the organization is doing right now, is not doing anyone any good.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:59 am
As a member of AGB who spoke extensively to about seven protesters last Saturday, it has been informative to read these comments. When I spoke to the protesters, I emphasized that AGB was not purposely suppressing ASL and that it was an individual choice. As a deaf person, I clearly stated that if I had a deaf child, I would implant him or her and teach the child sign language as well. I emphasized that it was my choice, and AGB does not come into parents’ house and dictate how to raise their deaf children.
When speaking with the protesters, I proposed the solution of AGB presenting other options, such as pointing to NAD to learn more about ASL. I discovered that there already existed a website that did this, and this further supports my argument that AGB was not trying to negate ASL. AGB is for oralism — that does not *at all* mean that it is against sign language.
Website: http://www.agbell.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?p=Communication_Options
I shared anecdotes with how AGB is tolerant of sign language — interpreters provided, not having an issue with its members signing (I signed comfortably with several friends), and exhibit halls showing the multitude of options. One anecdote I wish I could have shared was this: The day after I spoke to protesters, I saw a father pushing a deaf child in a carriage and signing to it — down the hall of the convention center. Nobody was stopping this parent from doing so! There is tolerance all around, and AGB is an organization whose goal is to detail one of the various choices.
DBC is drawing a line in the sand where none existed before. If parents have access to all kinds of information, not just through that website but through the power of the Internet, then it is their choice to decide how to raise their children.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am
John,
“Since it has not been posted and your concern about anyone knowing more about your character, I deleted it.”
Has not been posted? It was posted. AGBell.info has a history of doing personal smears in the attempt to expose people of their identity.
For many people, they just simply see one connection between AGBell.info and DBC and is already hopelessly intertwined and cannot be distanced. In other words, people will see that AGBell.info = official DBC website.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
A correction here:
“they simply see one connection between AGBell.info and DBC and is already…..”
to
“they simply see one connection between AGBell.info and DBC and they both are already hopelessly interwined and cannot be distanced.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
grr..that would be “intertwined” and not “interwined”.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:32 am
Hi there,
I read many responses and I must tell you that I am not comfortable with some of responses.
I think we all need to back off for now and we need to take our times to look at the whole picture. (go out for a good walk and take a deep breathe)
I do not want to see anyone being destroyed.
I do want to see all of us to work together to promote bilingual approach for Deaf babies and children. We know we always have some disagreements that is part of normal.
May I suggest that some of you need to dialogue with some others to address private issues in any form of communication such as vp, email, etc.
All I do care is about Deaf community and Deaf babies/children as well as their families.
We have learnt from our mistakes and successes. We can grow out of them positively rather than negatively.
Thanks
Deafchip
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
Dr. Hocokan said in Amy’s blog that DBC spent over $35,000 to cover the expenses for the conference and flights. Were air flight tickets paid to the leaders and six presenters out of $35,000? Why couldn’t they pay for their tickets on their own to show their loyalty to DBC instead of taking away people’s contributions directly to DBC? I can see the jerked knees because they don’t want cans of worms to be opened. Truth be told!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:42 am
Can anyone please give me the exact IP adress to the above point made by “Truth be told!!”? I’m trying to see what was said on Amy’s blog site-but so far I have been unable to see where is “Dr. Hocokan” on Amy’s blog.
And also- FYI- most speakers at major confereces do get paid for airplane tickets. So nothing new here.
Many thanks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
we just HAVE TO see a new association gearing towards bilingualism for d/Deaf babies. DBC is too Deafhood-ish and tainted.
I am telling some of the parents who have CI kids that DBC is a sham.
Need new leadership!!!
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
Chipmunk, I agree. We all need to dialogue with eachother, privately with hope for reconciliations. I did my part already and offered John multiple opportunities yesterday and today. I emailed him this morning and offered forgiveness so that we’re able to move forward and work together for the betterment of Deaf children. He has not accepted the invitation. But worry not… I am still here and I’m still waiting. For a guy that only understand intimidation tactics it takes a while to realize that running to corners does not work because after all the world is round, a circle, as in Hocokan. Corners are only illusions in our heads. The reality is the center of the circle. I know I am in the center but John is no where to be found, yet except I see him in his corners. Rememeber these walls he keep talking about. He is seeing walls every where because he is in that corner. These walls will disappear as soon as he steers himself back to the center of a circle. It takes time for him. He has a good heart so I know he’ll find his way to the center. I believe in him and I know he will eventually come around and re-emerge humility. Have faith.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 am
http://blog.deafread.com/abcohende/2008/06/27/message-to-dbc/
to amy’s blog/vlog. Dr. Hocokan is in there.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 am
Thanks “mcconnell”. I clicked on that and found it. Interesting discussions there.
To Dr. Hocankan: You sure are very…all-knowledgeable. You keep on saying things that give a lot of people the impressions that you are arrogant…e.g. “For a guy that only understand intimidation tactics it takes a while to realize that running to corners does etc. etc.”
Perhaps if you would have not used such language you might be able to have good discussion with me and others.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 am
Wow! This is 21 Century welcome war between DBC and AGBell that American way remember cannot stop them that many choices. Yes! that true cause mixed messages damnage to deaf community. Go back # 1 comment Anna s I am truly heart with you did answers the issues perfect to me why is called that “Deaf-supremacist” I know what these deaf persons are come from five schools their background are Maryland, MSSD, Fermont, Riverside and Indiana that examples deaf leaders their ways idea cause development problems and not ready real world also these have no balance shared us like streotypes. I have see in YLC, Gallaudet, deaf schools lead to racism remember what happened to MSSD with students joined war games that big mistake hurt to everyone who attend deaf schools. I am support ASL and any device hearing aids that both best tools. I hope you will understand shared all over it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Truth be told!!!,
I’m not clear on who got paid and whose accomodation expenses were covered. I did not stay onboard long enough to find out but I know many participants charged DBC money, especially Rosa Lee Show. Approximately $5,000 was spent on Rosa Lee Show alone and I questioned why she would not donate her time for the worthy cause. Maybe she viewed her profession as a priority rather than the cause itself but that’s her decision and her choice. I have some details on expenses involving the conference since I was part of the core group meeting where budget issues was discussed up until the week before the conference. I don’t know what happened afterwards. BUt you are right… whatever happened to volunteerism in demonstration of our loyalty towards the cause, that of Deaf children who we hold precious to our hearts. Oh well.
Unfortunately, some are into DBC for monetary gains. I can tell you what Ella’s true agenda is. She told me on VP that her true interest was promooting Deafhood and she thought DBC’s movement would shed more publicity for her Deafhood movement. She makes money from Deafhood movement. This much I know for sure. John also told me on VP that he was more interested in using DBC to recruit support from insurance company who would stand to save millions of dollars from CI expenses and have them (insurance companies) pay him as traveling spokesman. This much, I know for sure. I know few other core members’ true agendas but I promised them I’d keep our discussions confidental.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am
Wait a min.
They are entitled to their opinions! It doesn’t mean they are Deaf supremacists! They support their culture and their language! I see nothing wrong with them having their beliefs.
Personally I think audism is an excellent concept worthy to be explored within the deaf educational system.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
florin,
I agree. I think that the damage has been done. I am just waiting for the ASL Powerhouse to abandon ship since they lack the necessary contents to take DBC where it needs to go. I am putting together evidences during my four months tenure with them and will spill the beans, so to speak for the entire world to see that Deafhood has taken DBC hostage, wearing bilingual umbrella with hidden agendas to promote pro-ASL movement. If they’re too stubborn, the ultimate truth will be told and the damage will be done. We will then move forward with a new association / coalition gearing towards bilingualism for d/Deaf babies. And yes, at this point DBC is too tained with Deafhood image, thanks to Ella, DE, and DR.
By all means, do spread the truth. Made it known to everybody that ASL Powerhouse kidnapped DBC under the name of bilingualism and sold the souls of bilingual Deaf children for the sake of Deafhood. That has to stop. New leadership is needed and believe me it will happen in matter of time.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Huh uh, I have to say that Indiana School for the Deaf is very open to all kinds of deaf people, even supporting oracy, next to signacy and literacy (yes, oracy has its place in Bi bi movement) and I have met the “leaders” here in Indiana and they all are wonderful and open-minded.
Well, we all have different viewpoints. Like DeafChip, I feel a little uncomfortable about the rumors about DBC’s core team and I’d rather leave it alone… like many said, it is 11 months old. .. many organizations do have their own disagreements and differing opinions of how money should be spent, (referring to $35K… the blues is right, the guest speakers are usually paid to come and to give speeches), etc. Yes, the personal opinions should be respected but not allowed to be imposed on the mission philosophies of any organizations. Heck, look at US Presidents… they all had and have different cabinet members, different philosophies. So it is same thing for both AGBell and DBC.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 am
Okay, hold on, Dr. Hocokak. I don’t subscribe to “Deafhood”, but saying that DBC is “kidnapped” in the name of Deafhood is a bit too much. I am sure that there are MANY members there who don’t give a damn about Deafhood.
But then I don’t know what is going on in DBC’s core team but I trust that DBC will change over time, to get better, learning from mistakes, etc.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 am
I agree with MZ here. Everybody’s entitled to their opinions. Nothing wrong with anybody wanting to support their culture and their language. Remember wholeness, accepting everybody for who they are and embrace to work together for the betterment of the world. Those that oppose wholeness are radical in their view and needs to be embraced. They need to understand the wonders of Hocokan, a complete circle and wholeness. Once they understand it they will be liberated from these so-called walls.
Stereotypes and name calling business has no business here.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Karen Mayes,
I stand corrected however I did not say that you or anybody subscribed to Deafhood philosophy. Let me rephrase myself. The majority rule within DBC belongs to Deafhood movement. I know because I was deeply involved and I know what I saw. I know only two, perhaps three members of the core group who probably didn’t subscribe to Deafhood movement but DBC’s executive coordinator is also the director and spokesperson for Deafhood movement.
I, too have confidence that DBC is going to correct itself and distance itself from Deafhood movement, that of ASL Powerhouse. It will happen but they won’t make the necessary changes if they think they’re able to intimidate and silence us. We all are here to learn and improve. I’m all for it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
Dr Hocokan, can tell me what is Medicine Wheel?
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am
Erik, AGBell is still vehemently opposed to ASL, scaring parents off with false statements how ASL will hurt their deaf children’s aural and verbal development, when in truth, it actually enhances them. It attacked Pepsi Cola for using ASL actors for its ad. Deaf children using ASL were kicked out from the exhibition Hall. I witnessed it myself.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am
Wow. i’m impressed with these plot twists.
I wonder what’s going through Paddy Ladd’s mind should he be here reading this epic discussion.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 am
Well, some feel uncomfortable because, unfortunately, the truth sucks.
Truth hurts.
Backing off doesn’t do much except prolong it even further. You wanna change things?
Do it now.
Otherwise all is lost.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Yeah…. there are some in here who want us to be silenced and swept under the rug because the truth hurts. In reality, the truth has never hurted anybody. The only time it ever hurt is when we hide the truth. It is the exposure that hurts, reminding us of importance of accountability. Stick to the core vales and preserve integrity… then the truth will never hurt. It’s that simple. And by the way Chris H, Medicine Wheel is a theory used by Lakota tribe for solutions to every imaginable problems. I’ve been a student of Medicine Wheel for many years but that’s the other chapter of my life. Serve yourself well by learning Medicine Wheel. Regards.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 am
Hey Blues,
You remember the link you posted up there about the photo of a guy with DBC on his shirt standing in front of AGB tanks?
That picture is a perfect visual image to show you what is happening right now; DBC is standing in front of a wall with a picture of a tank.
It’s not a real tank, you realize that its a photo, right? It’s a wall with a photo of a tank, you realize that too, right? And the real tank… is all in your head.
Why do you rally for such a parody?
I think your intentions are wonderful… and in the wrong direction.
Link: http://puredeaf.blogspot.com/2008/06/dbc-agb-photo.html
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 am
Dr Hocokan
Are you Lakota?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 pm
To Dr. Hokocan:
Comments like ” ASL Powerhouse to abandon ship since they lack the necessary contents to” etc. etc. really does show a lot of people where you are coming from.
You stated “Stereotypes and name calling business has no business here.” -yet you have consistently used labels, i.e. “ASL Powerhouse” and other names to vilified me and others in this movement.
I submit, sir or madam, that you have no creditability, other than being one of the foundering members of the Board of DBC.
And as I have repeatedly said: You have not offered any evidence to support your wild accusations.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Dog food, I don’t think that is an illusion.
Many organizations are telling parents that sign language will hurt their children’s linguistic development. So many parents are scared away from ASL. If this is true, then hearing children of deaf parents will have problems learning spoken English. When in fact, they usually do better than the average child due to their ability to express themselves earlier with signs. It’s also the same with HoH kids, too.
They say the cochlear implants really work, then these kids shouldn’t have problem learning the spoken language, too while expressing themselves in sign language
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm
to dog food:
Your comments are appriciated…and thrown to the dogs.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
and Mishiza Zena is correct.
There lots of parents who NOT getting the full stories about ASL and other options for thier Deaf babies.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pm
oppps! so sorry to Mishka Zena…spelling her name wrong the first time!
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I have seen it with my own eyes many times that the AGB give out alot of false information about ASL and Deaf culture. Thier reaction to the Pepsi ad during the Super Bowl is all too commom for them, I am sorry to say.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Dr Hocokan
A Medicine Wheel is a physical manifestation of Spiritual energy. An outward expression of an internal dialogue. A mirror in which we can better SEE what is going on within us. It is a wheel of protection and enables us, and allows us, to gather surrounding energies into a focal point and to commune with Spirit, Self and Nature (ALL elemental forces)……..Creation!
Physical
Safety during a violent incident
Safety as I Prepare to leave
Safety for my children
Emotional
Safety in My Own home
Safety and my Emotional Health
Safety for my Children
Spiritual
Safety and Drug or Alcohol Consumption
Safety with a Protection Order
Safety for my Children
Mental
Safety on the job and in Public
Safety Using my computer (on the Internet)
Safety for my Children
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Let’s not nit pick on one thing, let’s look at the whole picture. The Pepsi commercial letter was dumb, but AGB’s TV spot last weekend pretty much took care of that.
AGB said they’re all about choice. DBC has not done anything but bash AGB. I have not seen one instances last week where AGB has said or done anything to put DBC down.
And, in VA, they weren’t gonna let anyone from the protest in their booth area, which is understandable. It’s not because they’re deaf and use ASL, it is because they are from THE PROTEST.
Are we gonna move on and make things work or are we gonna just banter back and forth? Getting nowhere?
ahh..typical….
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
And regradless of your “evidence”, no one can explain away the AGB people reactions to the Super Bowl ad.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Blues, so everything is based on their reaction to the Super Bowl ad? You got more? is that all you have?
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Wow ,I guess it shows now who is the “child ” now…”poor you” wow.. I am laughting now hahahahaha
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I grew up in AGBell system. I still have many friends there. I still am hearing the same message. It’s nothing new.
They must provide interpreters in the meetings because it is the law.
They are better in hiding it now, but if one looks and hears closely the audism is still there. Be sure to hear how they describe sign language during the presentations and how it hurts the children’s linguistic development.
If you are not seeing it, then I suggest you remove the blinders. But please don’t play dumb.
They made a big oops with Pepsi Cola ad because they didn’t expected to be caught red-handed.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I’d love to share with you all the evidence I have, but in doing so we will be distracted from this blog.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I guess Mishkazena approves of Bullies cuz if Blues is gonna talk down to commenters and Paotie is being cordial as he can be, Paotie’s comments gets deleted.
[Deleted due to unacceptable sexual content]
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
BS blue! Bring it on.
How is it going to be distracting? we’re talking about it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Poatie is banned from this blog due to his previous verbal sexual attack to a blogger
Candy, if you continue with the sexual innuednos, you will be banned. This kind of conduct is not tolerated.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Well, Mishkazena, if everyone is going to go with the Pepsi Ad, you’ guys are gonna look stupid.
How about just advocating for ASL and leave AGB out of it. You guys will go far, much more farther with that.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
But let me say this-like Mishka Zena, I also grew up in the AGB Association. I have a lot of friends there too…including the leaders.
In fact, I edited some of thier papers.
So I know a little bit of what I am talking about here. So I agree with Mishka Zena.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Ahh banned eh?
and Blue is acceptable conduct to a blogger?
hmm….
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
You are a bully, too, Candy.
Offensive sexual comments are not tolerated in this blog.
This is my blog. Don’t like it? Too bad.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
No problem!
It is your blog.
I couldn’t care less cuz I know who I am.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I couldn’t care less cuz I know who I am, too
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
That makes two of us!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Kewl!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
What’s more.. the audience of DBC are mostly hearing parents, right? I mean 95 percent of deaf babies are born to hearing parents…
Yet they will not be able to understand the vlogs if they don’t know sign language. They need to be transcribed.
This confirmed my point that they are merely speaking to the choir, doing mutual admiration society stuff, giving each other hand jobs, doing self-congratulatory stuff (i.e., Joey Baer and his labeling the event as a great success without really explaining why).
DBC will go by the wayside due to lousy PR efforts, pure and simple. Also, they’re living in their own cloistered world where deafhood reigns supreme. Unfortunately, hearing parents do not give a rat’s ass about deafhood.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Why do I feel like I am back in middle school?
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I would like to say something with Mishka’s comment #252.
It’s the same with DBC.
The DBC and Ella Lentz made some huge oops on the article in the Milwaukee’s website/newspaper.
You know I do not want millions of hearing people who never interact/met with deaf people before to think that we do not want to deal with the Audism. It’s our job is to educate to the hearing people on our deaf cultures and issues.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
DBC is a very new organization, experiencing growing pain.
For an organization that didn’t exist one year ago, it grew explosively and ended with a big convention.
How do we measure success? I consider it very successful because it inspired many Deaf people and reaffirmed the value of ASL and Deaf Culture. Many Deaf people left, beaming and feeling invigorated, with plans to set up DBC chapters in other states and to develop strategies to work with the educational system. For the very first convention, I say that’s pretty good.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“Erik, AGBell is still vehemently opposed to ASL, scaring parents off with false statements how ASL will hurt their deaf children’s aural and verbal development, when in truth, it actually enhances them. It attacked Pepsi Cola for using ASL actors for its ad. Deaf children using ASL were kicked out from the exhibition Hall. I witnessed it myself.”
By saying “vehemently”, you make it sound like AGB is explicitly suppressing the usage of ASL. As I’ve said, AGB has shown tolerance in other modes of communication. As an organization with limited resources, its goal is to provide information about oralism. It provides additional venues about other modes of communication through its website and its exhibit hall. They point parents to organizations like NAD to seek out additional information about modes besides oralism. Having grown up and attended the majority of the conventions, I never got the impression that sign language was discouraged. AGB covers oralism, and its members (such as parents) choose to be there to explore the organization’s resources. Parents are not at the behest of AGB; they can think for themselves and explore other venues with comfort.
In regard to PepsiCo, AGB was not attacking the usage of American Sign Language. First of all, I disagreed with its letter because this was a 60-second commercial taking advantage of ASL as a *marketing gimmick* to sell soda products. However, what AGB was trying to say about this commercial is that it thought PepsiCo should have showed how diverse deaf people can be. There are many different modes of communication that can overlap, but I personally don’t think it is realistic to present all these modes in a commercial. ASL was chosen by PepsiCo to draw the most significant attention from audiences with its “quiet” airing so it can profit more strongly from the advertising. A commercial with deaf people having cochlear implants and talking do not have the same impact.
Regarding deaf children being kicked out of the exhibit hall, I have not heard of this particular anecdote. Can you outline the circumstances? Were they children of DBC members? Were they supervised? Did they lack badges? I did not see any children at the hall, so perhaps there were different circumstances than you realize. I signed with a couple of people in the hall without any sort of confrontation.
For what it’s worth, when I talk to oral deaf people about sign language, I explain my background in learning the language. Sometimes they express further interest in it, sometimes they don’t. I think that every deaf person and their parents should weigh the options, but ultimately, it’s the family’s decision, not any organization’s — AGB, DBC, NAD, etc.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
K.L.
Not only did DBC started in unchartered grounds it is also evolving. From what it sounds like, they are expanding the territory and exploring the effects of audism, which is a serious probelm. As it continues to grow, it will lead to new paths.
DBC is a baby, unlike AGBell organization.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
What a roller coaster this blog has been on…
I’d be be interested to know from the 500 or so attendees at the DBC Conference just how many of those attendees were hearing parents of deaf babies/children. Anybody got those figures yet?
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Erik
I am very familiar with AGBell system. Nobody else knows better than the children raised in its system. From what I’ve gathered from other Deaf peopel who are still in AGBell system and members of AGBell, it remains a serious problem.
AGBell’s oral policy isn’t an issue with me, not at all. Its bias toward ASL and Deaf people are. Their false claims about how ASL hurt the aural and verbal development of deaf babies and children are damaging.
I suggest you talk to the majority of Culturally Deaf people and ask them what their experiences with AGBell is. Why did they feel this way? This didn’t come from middle of nowhere.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Ann C, tell me about it! I honestly didn’t expect this at all and was caught off-guarded.
I don’t know about the ratio of the audience. But the deaf participants learned a lot about Bilingual programs, so they can continue with their outreach ventures. They also plan to expand DBC, with new chapters.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Hey Ann_C,
That’s what I want to know, too.
So far, it’s comment #129, MariMom. That’s all I know……
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
DBC is growing and learning. Of course everyone makes mistakes and is learning how to do better gradually.
Unfortunate, people have attacked DBC and have refused to give it a chance to grow. That, in my opinion, pulls everyone down. It has to be stopped. Constructive discussion is the best way to do. That is why I am asking all of us to back off and give us a chance to think about that constructively.
Please give DBC a chance and it is not evey one year old and is working very hard to improve and outreach parents.
We need to see it positively and it will grow into a successful organization that many future Deaf babies and children and their families will appreciate.
The first convention is our first step and DBC will evaluate itself and learn and work on it. that is what many organziations are doing.
PLEASE GIVE DBC A CHANCE! I saw it myself and I love it. It has empowered Deaf participants by learning new things from presentations related to Bilingualism.
Thank you
Deafchip
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Please read News from Chicago Tribune that media already exposures DBC organization. How will be resolved with parents who have deaf chirldren made decision choices? Need postive provides what they need benfits? Ask Congress make new bills H.R. tries to stop disagreements.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-deafprotests,0,2543432.story
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 pm
My parents and I have been involved with AGB since I lost my hearing, and I’m not sure if I can relate. Among my peers, I haven’t seen any kind of complaint about what it has done. I acknowledge that the history of oralism could have been more progressive, so are these members from long ago? I don’t feel I struggled with the path of oralism when growing up. I picked up sign language in high school from a club for deaf teenagers, people who ran the gamut in modes of communication.
In regard to the oral policy, are you sure that this is not mistaken for bias against sign language and Deaf people? AGB covers oralism, so we can expect most people who attend to communicate primarily via oralism. People who did not choose oralism will not be in attendance. I am aware of the previous myth that learning sign language would impede babies in oralism, but that was refuted in studies. Are you saying that you believe that this myth is ongoing? I don’t know if I can agree, if AGB provides venues to ASL and other options. If ASL is to be feared, it seems that AGB would forbid its mention at all. Instead, we see that while AGB covers oralism, it shows other options for parents to explore.
The feelings of Deaf people are rooted historically. When I talked to the protesters, they kept bringing up the history. I wanted to talk about the present, where modes of communication have since been fine-tuned. What did not work so well before can work now, and the attempted approach is not the only listed approach. If anything, there are multiple ways for parents to gather resources and weigh the options and pursue a specific path for their children.
I think that these feelings were the root of the protest. The protest struck me as detrimental because it seemed to be divided between organizations where it really boils down to the parents’ choice. As reflected in the comments above, there was not a surefire public relations campaign by DBC. Like people said, it seemed to be more CI vs. ASL than CI and ASL. Like trying to show deaf diversity in a TV commercial, I don’t think it’s possible to summarize the entire goal of DBC in a banner. If anything, it felt divisive. Like I’ve stated, I would teach my deaf baby sign and implant it as well. I’d be willing to explain that decision to others, but I don’t expect them to copy me for the sake of copying.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I am with deafchipmunk.
For a new organization..DBC..has grown rapidly. I wish them well…and I will support them. As for all of you who are “monday morning quaterbacks” -please keep in mind that a year ago this org. did not exist. It needs time and money and skills and volunteers.
To John E., please don’t give up. You have done a heck of job so far.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
What people are failing to understand is that DBC is not clear with its intentions and do need to be held accountable. Then they can move forward. For example, they are not just advocating on bilingualism but also audism and deafhood. They need to decide NOW if they want to include those for DBC.
Right now, it looks like they want to advocate those agendas…If so they should go ahead and be open about it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
New or not, how one goes about advocating their mission is the key.
So, if DBC does not change their tune, it’s not going anywhere.
I think that is where the focus of their getting the message out should be.
If no one takes Dr Hocokan’s message seriously, then I think DBC is doomed.
That’s all I will say about it.
And, of course I had to interject this one and I apologize if it is old. But, there was nothing sexual about my comment up there. I will explain it further on my blog when they recover from someone hacking their server. Perfect timing eh?
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I’d like to make one comment here regarding what Erik (#269) said:
“As an organization with limited resources, its goal is to provide information about oralism. It provides additional venues etc. etc”
AGB Association is NOT limited in its resources. It has millions and millions of dollars, thanks to AG Bell’s will, which stated that the AGB Assoc. will get $ every year from the Volter(spell? someone please refresh the memory of an old person here-I don’t recall the exact name of the foundation) Foundation, which Bell himself established.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Blues,
All organizations have limited resources. The organizations have to work within these limits. I’m sure DBC worked within their limits as well. My point was that with limited resources, not all organizations have flexibility to accommodate its members in whatever sense. I don’t pretend to know what goes on within the organization, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that AGB has a treasure chest for appealing to everyone if only they would reach out.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
to “Transparency is best” and “Candy” :
Your statements really have no basis. DBC is a new organization. It had a wonderful FRIST conference-with less that one year to prepared for.
Whew! Really…. people want to change this DBC..and are predicting domed and gloomed…are forgeting that this is a NEW group!
Please give it a rest.
Give it a rest…really..honestly.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
to erick:
The AGB have almost limitless resources. They have 100’s of milions of dollars. And every year they get millions more from Bell’s will.
The DBC, on the other hand , is a very new organization. Thye have very limited budget.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:37 pm
The blues…..
Well, Intimidation within the DBC members must be stopped. If they continue intimidating inside in the DBCs, it will be doomed.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Again:
you pretend to know whatever is happening there and are predicting gloomed and doomed.
Tell me: do you have cystal ball that will say all of this?
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Blues:
I’m not comparing AGB to DBC. I’m saying that they are differently-sized organizations with different limits. AGB is not freely spending money from a will; it has a limit with which it needs to accommodate members with programs and sessions. Running an organization like that is always challenging. As for DBC, it’s a different kind of organization and does not have the same limits. Like other people have said, DBC has to work in a different way to accomplish its goal, whether involving money or not.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
BUt the AGB people have nothing to worry about when it comes to money. That’s one of my point.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
maybe i’m out of my league now since i just worn out my welcome. After all, I am joining this discussion because i do get a kick out of many comments spilled and spewed out here.
I chose the moniker “dog food” simply because my comments are food for a thought that isn’t meant to be taken as seriously as a gourmet dish; i expect to be just a nourishing amount of thought that tends to “get thrown to the dogs” due to my environment and my own attitudes where deafness does come in play here and there.
All humans are dogs though. That’s how i see it in my book. Its a dog eat dog world with everyone snapping and humping each other for that dripping slab of fresh milk-fed veal.
Thank you all for an awesome and highly addictive discussion! I can’t wait to join the next banter.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I really disagree with that assumption. Like any organization, changes have to be made. I’ve seen some in AGB to meet its budget. They always have to worry about where the money goes for the organization’s upkeep and well-being. I suppose Parkinson’s law applies; an organization expands to the limits of its budget. It doesn’t purposely keep itself small. It’s called Parkinson’s law, I believe. I’m a business major, so that’s my educated perception about how organizations work. It’s not as simple as having money in your pocket.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
AS someone who’s been involved in the AGB assciation for over 40 years-and have edited some of their papers-I can tell you, sir, that $ is not a problem with AGB Association. I have been involed in many budget meetings-money is never a problem.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
If you say so. I’m disinclined to believe you, judging from your pro-DBC comments.
I’m retiring from the blog, so have a good day.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Well-fine…I really don’t care if you do believe me or not ….I will show this to my friends at the AGB Association…they will a huge laugh…so please have a good day also.
And really-if you are a business major-you should have identify the major problems that this new orgnization will face.
It may help explained why I am supporting the DBC.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
“do you have cystal ball that will say all of this?”
No one does.
But it doesn’t take a genius to see what DBC is doing wrong.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
oh so-you know what is really happening inside this new group? and you really know what will happen in the future?
Doing wrong? Hummmm is that a fact or your opinion?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
MZ,
I realize that DBC is a young organization and has a ways to go, but a very clear mission statement without negative baggage or rhetoric is critical for DBC to survive the next few years. Especially if the target audience that DBC is trying to reach consists of hearing parents with deaf babies.
I understand, MZ, what you said about AGBell making false, damaging claims about how ASL hurt the aural and verbal development of deaf babies and children. My suggestion is that perhaps another organization (since NAD doesn’t seem to be addressing this) be started specifically to address this problem separately. DBC is biting off more than it can chew and it’s not a wonder that their message is confusing.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Wow. I went to town for few hours and came back to find some this blog beyond hope. DBC is doomed. It don’t matter how you all want to tear or patch things up. ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood are on the verge of self-destuction. The hearing parents will find 1,001 reasons in this blog alone to take their d/Deaf children to AG Bell and say, “Do whatever you can do to keep this child as far away from Deafhood”. DBC just lost a major media war against AG Bell.
e said it well. 95 percent of deaf babies are born to hearing parents…. DBC and the ASL Powerhouse are merely speaking to their own choirs, doing mutual self-admiration, and doing self-congratulatory stuff. SELF-CONGRATULATORY. Precisely what is happening right now amongthe Deaf. Deaf people are impressed with themselves but they are not doing anything to impress hearing parent and the media giants. It boiled down to lousy PR job as e put it. Pure and simple. I know some of you don’t get it and probably never will. I can accept that.
Murphy Law teaches us that the dysfunctional will cease to function and destroy themselves. This much is already evident. I’ll take the high road and start my own movement. I will approach hearing parents, AG Bell, and the media on my own merits and show them the difference between the highly functional bilingual individuals versus pretenders (ASL Powerhouse that wears bilingual umbrella). That won’t be difficult since I understand the contents. And I won’t need a million man march to make that point. It is the power of pen stoke. Ever heard of it? Probably not.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Good luck Mr. Hocokan. I appreciate your invaluable feedback in this debate and look forward what happens next.
You have my support.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Hocokan, you are correct. I was one who was not just ushered out, I was pushed out for all same concerns you and others clearly articulated. I regret to say, I do not think DBC will survive because some of core members will never ever relinquish their power once they have it. I do not see any possibility of ousting this another cancerous form of oppression. No.
Shortly I will be in contact with Misha Zena for your e-mail address. I am interested in what you are considering to do in the future.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
My email address is drhocokan@gmail.com. Feel free and contact me. This applies to everybody. Negative messages will be dismissed but I will address everybody else that want to move forward on positive note. Regards.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Has DBC looked at ADSC deafchildren.org as a model to learn from? Perhaps ADSC deserves our support not DBC?
Perhaps the Milwaukee DBC shouldn’t have been free to the public except for hearing parents…it attracted all kinds of people. In one of the vlogs, I saw Jackseyes Tshirt with a handfist on the back…I did not like that…what vendors were allowed to sell what stuff there?
Why is it so slow to get info on Kuntze’s presentation…still nothing on dbcusa.org. They should be just as interested in writing as well as ASL.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 am
The heroine of the DBC Conference is none other than Tami Houssler who just so happens to be a hearing parent of a deaf child. She delivered a right delivery of the DBC’s mission (vide infra):
“Outside, protester Tami Hossler offered her own testimony as the mother of a deaf daughter and a parent who uses sign language.”
Source: Chicago Tribune Web Edition, July 2, 2008
For the full article, click: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-deafprotests,0,2543432.story
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 am
What the message that Tami Houssler had
delivered is what we need. Meaning what?
We need more DBC hearing members who are
parents of deaf children. The more the better.
AGBell would lose many members if DBC brings
hearing parents supporting ASL.
Soit
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:10 am
Jean,
I agree with you. I’ve had the privilege of working with Tami and I admired her greatly. I told myself this, only if DBC would recruit more people like her then it’d be dynamic. By nope… ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood won’t let it happen. Tami nearly resigned while I was there but John and I managed to talk her into staying. And when I was about ready to resign Tami tried to talk me into staying but I just couldn’t. Tami, if you’re reading this, I apologze for not letting you resign but yet I resigned myself.
And by the way, I created a new blog, awaiting approval from DeafRead. For the moment it is found at http://hocokan.blogspot.com/. The aim of the blog is to heal our wounds and traumas from the past. Enjoy reading. MZ, remove the link if I’m not allowed to post it here. I’m still new at blogging.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:24 am
Again “Dr. Hocokan” with the gloomed and doomed: “ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood are on the verge of self-destuction.”
And again without offering any evidence!
The only one who is gloom is you, “Dr. Hockoan” and those small amounts of people who seemed to be gullible enough to believe you.
The majority of us-your name calling us “the Deaf Powerhouse” are very happy and eager to help the DBC!
Either join us or quit making so many off-the -wall comments that your creditability is shrinking every time you make some type of statement.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:12 am
http://hocokan.blogspot.com/ isn’t working.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 am
MZ, You can delete #306 comment above, please
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:36 am
Dr Hocokan, I feel that I am not familiar to the term Circle is a very important tool for our body, mind, and spirit. I am not religious.
I can see that you have problem with DBC and Deaf community.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 am
The Blues belong to ZOO! My Advice best of you need to think the balance DBC or AGBell for sake keep peace between. Gallaudet already support AGBell organization what I can for you cannot stop them. I am heartly with Dr. Hocokan have good reasons and very well judgement shares with others make development market well organization.
I love use ASL and lipread what is wrong that?
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
Dr Hocokan
You shouldn’t smash up Ella because she wanted to use a videophone, and you are supposed to respect her own culture and decision. She has nothing to do with the videophone.
In my opinion, blue is right. I should have preached to the deaf community at the church, but I am sorry that I have to respect the Deaf community that has many groups that lead to subcultures.
I can tell you that the Hispanic community prefers speaking Spanish as its primary language rather than the English language. Some can speak both Spanish and English fluently when an amount of Hispanic people mostly speak Spanish at home, and participate in Spanish culture like Latin dancing, music and special Spanish TV channel during America.
You have made a history as a new label- ASL Powerhouse and Deafhood are on the verge of self-destuction. Some Hispanics made fun of me for using the English language.
In history, Maya’s (indian) community was military.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:38 am
my,my,my,my:
Aren’t we getting personal here! Well I guess I am saying something right…hence the attack e.g.”The Blues belong to ZOO!” that “Double Blues says” threw.
I know I am on right track now…thanks for the confirmation.
And I am still waiting for this “Dr. Hocokan” to show us what, if any, evidence he has to support his off the wall comments.
Failing that, I am re-issuing my invitation to him to please join us to make DBC a better organization.
Otherwise, you are just blowing a lot of hot air.
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 am
Protesting at the AG Bell conference? NOT a good idea. I am concerned the protestors will only wind up embarrassing themselves. There are better ways to call attention to the issues than having a public protest against AG Bell.
Where on the AG Bell website does it say “no sign language?” I can’t find fucking it! All I can find is language that says they promote the use of spoken language and hearing technology. What’s wrong with that? Again Surely it is possible to promote the use of speech and hearing aids and cochlear implants without saying “sign language is bad!” I need to know shows proves me? Come on!
Yes,Yes and again Yes! , deaf babies should be encouraged to learn sign language as well as talk. Write about it, talk about it, give interviews to the media about it, but Don’t protest about it! Hasn’t the deaf community learned anything from what happened during the Unity for Gallaudet movement? That’s I need answers these big issues.
I guess that nobody is talking about the Good Things that AG Bell does for the deaf community. AG Bell is just another nonprofit deaf organization! That’s how I view them today, regardless of their past history. If you look at the advocacy page on their site, the issues that concern them are the same ones that concern the National Association of the Deaf and any other deaf organization. Deaf is deaf, whether you use voice or sign.
So, God help me! Let move from beging to present into bright make better future!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:51 am
Think about this quote
“Do not judge a book by its cover”
One needs to get deep into AGBell to see how it really works. We have been there. We grew up in the system. We know what it is really like.
If you prefer to be in denial, it is your prerogative. But we know the truth.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 am
Mishza Zena… you are so right! Many thanks for your support!
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
MZ,
I understood that you have expereince with the systems but what about others have same path with you? I like to count on more heard as more persons says from AGBell. So I will listen you give me good provided that organizations. My personeal that I don’t hate both organizations that belong deaf service due my respect.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:42 am
Hmm, I think I need to make some clarification. I don’t hate AGBell. It did help a minority of deaf babies and children. I benefited some from the oral system and so did some of my friends,but not the majority of deaf people. In the recent years, the oral method seems to be more successful with the help of early intervention and cochlear implants. However, the system still fails a fair portion of deaf children, which they refuse to acknowledge. The lack of transparency concerns me.
I am not subjected to the bias of AGBell because I do have oracy and lipreading skills. However, I can see their bias toward sign language (by stating it does harm aural and verbal development of deaf babies/kids) and deaf people who cannot speak at all. These bias and the lack of transparency are what I hate about AGBell.
If AGBell drops its biases and become more transparent, I can see it working with other organizations and focus on what the child needs the best, not just the ears and mouth, but as a whole. We can go a long way.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
MZ,
I agreed with you about development of deaf babies/kids that tough issues in many years never resolved it. What I can do advised asked to Dept of Education or organizations work on it. How can tell the demo communications skills or device fellowing any ages in school systems that my count it. We know that still fights for it and take long way to go. We don’t want divided deaf community most important to me. One thing about Ella Lentz quote her vlog be cautious!
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Misha Zena:
Regarding:
“However, I can see their bias toward sign language (by stating it does harm aural and verbal development of deaf babies/kids) and deaf people who cannot speak at all.”
You really mean:
However, I can see their bias AGAINST sign language (by stating it does harm aural and verbal development of deaf babies/kids) and deaf people who cannot speak at all.
Am I correct? Otherwise, I am very confuse.
Thanks.
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Smile, The blues. yes, you are correct.
I am very tired and making mistakes.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Floridagirl,
Ella smashed me up first when she barred me from using email to communicate with DBC Core Group. What makes her preference more important than mine? Go figure.
Blue, as in sad, I am per your request. The evidences will be presented. You have my assurance. But I’ve been asked by many to hang onto it until after NAD’s convention is over with. Naturally I agreed. Patience, my friend. The day of reckoning for Ella and DBC will happen with or without your blessing.
And again, I am not focused on deaf people’s excitement because they are not the ones that control the fates of 95% of deaf children. You can rally all you want for the 5% but my focus is on the bigger picture, something you obviously don’t see because you see the WALL, an illusion in your head. Keep on rallying amongst Deafhood if it makes you happy. I am talking about something else here.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
LOL, after over 800 hits and 320 comments on this roller coaster, I’d be tired reading as well. Time to move on to a new article, don’t you think, MZ?
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
LOL!
No way! I need a break from blogging and enjoy the patriotic holiday! Happy Fourth of July, readers!
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
To “dr.” Hocokan:
I am really laughting at you..because it shows what type of person you are..if you continue to atack me!
I have stated before:
I am very, very ,vey happy…and the reason (as I have indicated in my pervious post) regarding my name “the blues” is in honor of the Bluesman.
The fact that YOU have continue to harp on this false issue is an indication of the type of person you apperantly are.
“Patince, my friend?” yeah right. If this your definition of friendship…. get yourself a dictionary and look up the words “friend” “friendships”.
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Good for you, my friend. I am happy to know that you are content with yourself. Some people are happy right where they are. Some seek greater purposes in life. The last time I looked up the definition of friend or friendship was back in the 2nd grade. I am surprised you had to check on it today.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
MZ, happy July 4th. Your posting has been an eye-opener. May we all have learned something from this.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
About Gallaudet sponsoring AGBell conference, maybe they are trying to let hearing parents know that there are other options, other than the ones that AGBell is “pushing” for.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
To “Dr.” Hocokan:
Frist of all sir, it is really a terrible refection on you to be so smug i.e calling me your “friend”. It does appear that we are dealing with a man(you) who so full of yourself about calling names i.e.”ASL Powerhouse,” etc.etc.
But whatever….you seemed intent on being the bully in this ..so as I have stated before…..
Your creditability is being dropped every time you say something.
And please don’t you ever call me your “friend”..it’s an insult to real my friends.
FYI:
I did not have to look up the definition of friend: I , unlike you, have friends.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:51 pm
and to Misha Zena:
I am in contact with a Raphael…he says that he knows you..and becuase he has not been feeling well lately, he has not been in contact with you.
But he want to wish you a Happy 4th of JUly.
And I also want to wish you a Happy 4th.
Take care.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
in post #327- I meant “reflection”-not “refection”.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Blue, it is within my liberty to call you a friend and your liberty to call me an enemy. I’d rather be on my gleeful side than your grumpy side. Go figure.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Blue, make up your mind. You said you were waiting for me to show up in this blog so I showed up…. and then now you’re whining about my presence. You sounds pretty confused.
To make your day brighter I have a very interesting article for you to read at http://hocokan.blogspot.com/2008/07/hocokan-center.html. Perhaps it’ll help and clear up the clouds for you, my friend. Best wishes.
Happy Independence Day to everybody!
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Oh Blue, my bad.. I stand corrected. You are not just my friend. You are my BROTHER! LOL.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
That someone above says that he or she
likes AGBEll is beyond my comprehension
ever imaginable. I would NOT know how
to like or to respect HITLER! Like
Hitler, AGBell has trained oral deaf
children that signing children are
stupid and illiterate.
Consequently, I do not respect AGBell.
All comments criticising AGBell can be
translated in many languages and published
in the form of a book.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Makes you wonder why the other DBC COre members aren’t commenting or following up in DeafRead, you could tell you something about that. I find that pretty strange.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:34 am
Yeah. Many people asked about it too. You are not only one. Many of us noticed absence of comments from DBC Core members. John did comment in Amy’s blog earlier and tried to water down the debate but it did not work. He’s been quiet since. Ella and DE are too quiet. Yeah, it made us wonder too. Did we strike a nerve and freeze the deer with the headlight? I think the debate shook them up pretty bad because their hidden agendas backfired big time. They are trying to act cool but my friend who know inside sources told me that they were very worried and meeting in private.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Well, I just hope that the DBC core members would develop some insight into how DBC is being run, its goals, who the target audiences should be, etc. Cy made a good vlog about it which I suggest that you checked it out.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
To Dr. Hocankan:
You must be really desperate if you are inventing conversation. Where did I say I was waiting for you?
It must be, again, a sign of what type of man we are dealing with…inventing and ranting new words, i.e. “ASL Powerhouse” etc.etc.
and now conversations that never took place.
I never presumed to know any one I’ve never met in person to judge that person’s mood, i.e.
“I’d rather be on my gleeful side than your grumpy side. Go figure.”
My grumpy side? hmmmm …I guess you want to drop to new lows on the creditably scale.
You can call me whatever you want….it’s a sign of the type of person you are: jerk? arrogant pampos?- I don’t know ..but judging from your writings …you seemed intent on imposing your version of the truth…without any regards to the facts. And when you are confronted with FACTS…you conviently ignore them i.e. the rational for my name “the Blues”.
Perhaps you are in a “baiting” mood, wanting to lash out and cause people to come down to your level of discourse (below dirt, in my opinion).
I don’t know- and I don’t care.
I,for one, refuse to come down to your level.
July 5th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Blue,
Look up above and review many of your comments to me and others and you will see who the angry party is. You claim to be laughing in many of your comments but in reality, your choice of words told us differently. You’re grinding your teeth behind the mask. Splashing anybody who exercised circular thinking with your linear thoughts and mindset. You obviously have a long and difficult life and you are still on this difficult journey so I feel for you, my friend. I know because I’ve seen your corner many times.
Read #311. Before #311 was posted by you, I said I’d cease to comment in this blog. As soon as I said it you posed a challenge, resulting in my return to this blog only to whine about my presence afterwards as if you thought I was not going to check in for new comments…. including yours. Technically, talking to me, posing a challenge when you thought I was not around. It’s called cheap shots. It goes to show who you are.
And when I returned to this blog you flew off the wheels, so to speak and went on ranting rampage, a reflection of linear thinking on your part. I feel for you, my friend.
In reality, this blog is not about you or me. It’s about DBC’s conflicting messages. You are the one that’s been trying to change the subject. Look up and review your comments and we see you trying to change the subject every time we make a valid point regarding conflicting messages. My friend, it is counter-productive. You are part of the larger circle so act responsibly.
July 5th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Keep on calling me your friend… and using words to describe me…. it really show what type of person you are!
Calling us names like “ASL powerhouse” shows what type of person you are!
“You’re grinding your teeth behind the mask. Splashing anybody who exercised circular thinking with your linear thoughts and mindset. You obviously have a long and difficult life and you are still on this difficult journey so I feel for you, my friend. I know because I’ve seen your corner many times.”
OH YEAH, THAT ONE MADE ME LAUGHT SO HARD, I CRIED!
I am grinding my teeth? YOU DON’T KNOW ME..!
YET YOU PRESUME TO SAY ALOT ABOUT ME…HUM..IT SHOWS ALOT ABOUT YOU!
There is a word that describes you: It is called “ARROGANCE”. How about “pompance”? Whoever you are, you obliviously have a very high opinion of yourself.
And as I have stated before… I will not come down to YOUR level-which is now below dirt.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
And for the record:
You accussed me of taking a”cheap” shot at you with my #311. hummmm
I guess if you don’t know how the blogspear works, you can take it or you can’t take.
FYI:
Sometimes in the blogspear, a person can post something without in getting the order. In other words, I could have posted my 311 BEFORE it became 311.
I guess, since you have attacked me on my post #311 (even though it said nothing NASTY about you), and since I was just asking you to show us your so-called “EVIDANCE”…and inviting you to join us….since you attaked me for that post ..it showed what type of person you are.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The blues and Dr Hocokan,
I say, fellas, if you two want to duke it out, by all means do it but not here. Take it privately via email, if you will please.
I’m more interested in what commenters have to say about DBC’s message at the conference, which is what MZ’s blog is about in the first place, not a flaming fight.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
i agree, Ann_C:
I am the one who has tried to ask qustions(like show us the evidnece) and have repeataly invited anyone to please join us to make DBC a better org.
It is this Dr. Hocokan , who frist by making off the wall comments about my name “the blues” and then started to “bait” me by calling me his friend and then by calling us the ASL powerhose, and then making alot off off the wall comments about me without knowing me…this is the person who continues to show us his real colors by balsting me with name calling.
I,for one, only respond.
I agree with you Ann_C, and invite anyone eles to please join us to make the DBC a better place.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
It’s a lot of hard effort to put out a public message. Mishka Zena gives DBC a lot of credit for this effort, and for a first national conference after the organization was founded only 11 months before, that is an amazing accomplishment.
As with any new organization, leaders and members are learning as they go along. These same people, both leaders and members, need the feedback about whether they’re on track or not. I hope these activists don’t take what d/Deaf people are saying on the deaf blogosphere as negative criticism about DBC, but as constructive ways to improve the organization and its mission. I mean emphasis on constructive improvement.
DBC should take a look at WHO is their target? Is it Deaf people or is it hearing parents of deaf babies/children? The who.
Is it AGBell or is it Bilingualism? The why.
Target Deaf people, and it’s AGBell,
OR, target hearing parents of deaf babies, it’s bilingualism.
I’d like to see DBC become very specific as to WHO they want to reach and WHY. Attacking AGBell is drawing attention AWAY from DBC, promoting bilingualism is drawing attention TO… DBC.
I say this, not in criticism, but in the hopes that somebody in DBC’s leadership will realize that DBC’s mission is much bigger than themselves.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Ann_C, my exact sentiments.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Thank you Ann C. Blue needed this kind of reminder to stick to the subject. Now let’s hope it works.
From day one of my tenure with DBC I told them the same thing. I advised them to identify their target and make their mind up about it because they were too focused on gaining support from deaf people who only control 5% of deaf children. But yet, they kept their target intact all the way to Milwaukee. They seem to maintain this same target today. I guess the question has already been answered. They want to target deaf people and win the favor of 5% deaf children only because it is easier. And they are only interested in the bigger picture…. the Deafhood movement.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Actually Dr H, the bigger picture is the deaf children, the future of the d/Deaf community, not Deafhood or some other personal agenda. This is what I was trying to convey about what DBC’s mission can be. The future generations’ success is far more important than any personal agenda or philosophical concept like Deafhood, or Hocokan, for that matter.
Philosophies come and go like trends, but the future transcends US, the current generation. Especially when you look at your own kids…and want more for them than what you had.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Still wondering why still the dbc core members aren’t writing about what they did at the convention. What I’m saying is why an outsider if is or not doing all the talking about what DBC do or whatever such as the blog this morning about talking to one AGBell’s parent(why say this) at the rally who doesn’t know ASL with a child having CI. Too many loopholes I think and too many people giving out wrong info than what DBC aiming for to the people of the outsiders. Isn’t she a participate or member of DBC?? Dbc core members letting others to do the talking??? Just a thought to ponder.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Finally “dr.Hocakan” says something reasonable, instead of making up new words , i.e “ASL Powerhouse” and defaming us.
I have always wanted to discuss the issues, but not when you have a socialpath naming us names and bashing us with his-self-rightesness about himself.
Ok-Let’s talk about the issues without bashing us and name calling and baiting tactics.
I have always invited anyone to please join us ….we are still a new organization….new organizations make mistakes. Even mature org. makes mistakes (can anyone say Gallaudet University?)
That said, I agree with every thing you said, Ann C. i.e. this is about Deaf childern. Perhaps we can est. a good dialog with the leaders of DBC and inform of the many good suggestions that you have made?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I hope you all had a nice holiday.
Interesting discussion. I would respectfully ask the commenters to address to the topic and refrain from bashing each other. I know it can be hard at times, but please do try your best. Thanks
This is an excellent topic that needs more discussion.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I agree, Mishza Zena! This topic needs to be more discuess.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Look up #94 and read my first comment in this blog. No where in it was I disrespectful towards anybody. I told the truth. Unfortunately the truth hurt some people in this group but I am not responsible for the pain because I am not the one that hid the truth in the first place.
Ann C, I agree. We all are here in this blog for one reason. We want to see the restoration of DBC’s original mission. Bilingualism, through ASL exposure for deaf babies. However if you look up you will see the theme of this blog. DBC’s confusing messages. We are questioning how and why it happened. I provided some insights due to my involvement with DBC and its’ core members. Some like Blue and few others took the truth hard and personal. I offered insights on Hocokan philosophy in a separate blog because it will tell us what went wrong and why DBC’s linear approaches will never work. It is a philosophy in itself. Nothing more and nothing less. Hocokan philosophy will define DBC’s linear thoughts and approaches so that we’ll know what approach DBC should use next time.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Hi “Just a thought to add”,
I wonder the same. The dbc core members are not blogging or writing about what they did at the convention. Bilingualism? If they truly supported bilingualism they would write more stuff for us and especially hearing parents to read.
The reason they are quiet is because they know what some of us are capable of. They know we have enough “inside evidence” to expose the truth to the rest of the world. Truth is they whine in face of literacy. They whine in face of oralism and CI. When I exposed myself to bloggers John became worried and tried to dig up dirt on me on a separate blog. He is worried because he knows what I know. He knows I have the evidences. And he should be. He only understand intimidation tactics but that is his linear approach, which will not work with my circular approach. I have nothing to hide from my past.
DBC’s lack of action in the past few days should tell us one thing. They are spooked by the truth. They are worried about the truth that some of us know. They are quiet because they are taking the “wait and see” approach to see what happens next. They know that they can not delete or erase what I have in my files. I know Blue will say, show the evidence because he does not think I have them. He does not know why I’m hanging onto my evidences. It’s only because others have asked me to hang onto it until after NAD convention and some were hopeful that we are able to restore dignity back to DBC’s original mission and save what little we contributed to date. Naturally, out of respect for everybody I waited.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
To MZ and The blues,
You know, I tried to start a dialogue with John E. back on December 21st with a comment “John Egbert, Are You willing to Listen to a Crit?” in his blog. Unfortunately this comment came out during the “deficit thinker” debate that raged in DR during that month.
And I don’t know, but his response implied that he was lumping me with the “deficit thinkers”. I understood then John was not ready to listen to anything further than that. He’d already drawn the lines at that point.
John E. just assumed that my views were those of a “vocal” minority on DR, when actually I was trying to reach a middle ground and saying that there’s a reason for criticism– one can actually learn something from it and improve one’s success. Name-calling and claiming only YOUR side is the only one that’s right comes across as personal attacks to the other party, and it’s destructive.
A crit can be constructive, if one is willing to put aside one’s own perceptions/ views for a few minutes and really listen to what the other person is saying. Your critics can be your best teachers.
I have had many button-pushers in my life. I’ve found out the hard way that a button-pusher actually sees something I’m blind to because I’m either too wrapped up in something to see the forest for the trees or I’m oblivious to a problem rearing its ugly head because I chose to ignore it. Them button-pushers are the ones pointing to the problem, not at you, and are trying call your attention to the problem. They’re the ones reminding you that hey, instead of fighting something or ignoring something, you have work on YOURSELF to do first.
This was what I was trying to gently tell John E. but I guess the message was lost on him. He really wasn’t ready to listen, and that’s the first thing that has to happen before any dialogue can follow.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Dr. Hocokan aka Barry,
You got it, as even about a so call participate saying if knowing the DBC COre Members personally or involved in the planning or work related?? Is relaying their comments/happenings or her own comments in regards to talking to Parents of AGBell?? Makes me wonder as I know some people really care but it’s not their place to be where they aren’t suppose to be if not on the DBC Core Team. PERSONAL issues/opinion should not even be INCLUDED period when a parent ask for any opinion when not having the full facts.
Ann_C
Amen to your quote:
“A crit can be constructive, if one is willing to put aside one’s own perceptions/ views for a few minutes and really listen to what the other person is saying. Your critics can be your best teachers”
I’ve been there, I think from within and heart to see how the other person will react to my opinion or whatever. I’ve learned a great deal, I can’t control anything that I have no control over. I have alot of respect of people from all walks of life and from my upbringing is to be gentle and have a heart. Hearing other criticism, simply is either “take it or leave it”, SIMPLE but to learn a few things maybe a few of the info is valuable than your own in a harmony way.
As AGBell, so many years gone by, I’m sure they didn’t know any better years ago, and I am sure they are trying without putting anyone down. Why can’t DBC see that a hearing parents is either grieving or being thrown in an unknown deaf world. Gotta be sensible to them parents not to an organization they belong to. ANGER is not the way to go, period, you making yourself look bad. That’s all I can say. Simply, DBC is to make an organization or whatever you want to call it of their own to help hearing parents not to take sides. The more the choices the better for any parent to check it out and it’s their choice not about how they should raise a hearing parent’s child. PEACE and Harmony!!!!! attracts awesome people into your circle. THINK about it!! Move on, we can’t go backwards, so why not make it better in HARMONY.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
for DR Hocokan
off topic, I’ve been looking high and low trying to find your gmail addy that you had posted in one of your or other blogs. With appreciation.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Oh sure… email address is drhocokan@gmail.com. Feel free and email me directly.
I agree with latest comments made by you and Ann C. AG Bell may have made some mistakes in the past but from what I’ve read and seen they worked long and hard to correct their radical views and stance. They’ve corrected a lot of things since then. However DBC is still trying to stereotype them as the same old dangerous gang and hang them high to dry for all of their previous mistakes. But when we begin to criticize them (DBC) for their first several mistakes they call it Crab Theory because they only understand things from linear point of view.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Robert L. Mason (RLM) fully deserve recognization for exposing the AGBell for not captioning the FOX television interview in the first place.
RLM made a real sense about bringing up the real dangers of Early Hearing Detection and Intervention (EHDI) bill amended to the Early Newborns and Infants Health Screening legislation bill.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Hmmm.. since when is AG Bell responsible for FOX News and their captioning program? Last time I checked AG Bell didn’t own any shares in FOX News. It is FOX News’s responsibility to caption their news, not AG Bells.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
To Dr. Hocankan:
There you go agian!
“Some like Blue and few others took the truth hard and personal”
Calling us name i.e. ‘ASL Powerhouse” does not gets you into a discuession mode with anyone.
I only responded to TO YOUR baiting comments, which was not true at all. i.e my name “the blues” and other silly coments about me-which made me laught.
Keep on making silly comments that invites alot of us not to have any discussions with the likes of you, i.e.
“The reason they are quiet is because they know what some of us are capable of. They know we have enough “inside evidence” to expose the truth to the rest of the world. Truth is they whine in face of literacy. They whine in face of oralism and CI. When I exposed myself to bloggers John became worried and tried to dig up dirt on me on a separate blog. He is worried because he knows what I know. He knows I have the evidences. And he should be. He only understand intimidation tactics but that is his linear approach, which will not work with my circular approach. I have nothing to hide from my past.”
July 6th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
And I am constantly amazed that you can lump people that you don’t know (heck, you have lump me-a person who you don’t know at all) together into one group and promptly labeled all of us the problem, i.e. “ASL powerhouse”.
Really. . impressive. Wow!!!!!!!
July 6th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Thanks DR Hocokan,
Oh boy, there’s gotta be a PR adviser to be able to be the one to add anything on a website for the public to see rather than putting something negative on their own site such as dbcusa.org. So I guess its a free speech for anyone to put anything on the website?? Why talk about of why the walkway was closed for?? no hearing parent wants to hear or see this. It’s sure is a bad call. Any business or organization even a deaf sports club I use to be on the board we all had to agree and approve/vote anything that’s goes on the website or presenting anything so everyone is on the same page or whatever reason. If I was on the board I wouldn’t even want this negative post on the website for what?? needing pity?? NOT!!!
July 6th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
whoa, I guess someone doesn’t want to listen or respect MZ’s blog as she quoted in #384
# Mishkazena Says:
July 6th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I hope you all had a nice holiday.
Interesting discussion. I would respectfully ask the commenters to address to the topic and refrain from bashing each other. I know it can be hard at times, but please do try your best. Thanks
This is an excellent topic that needs more discussion.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Again, I’m glad that DBC have been correcting their radical views and stance which they need to do more. I hope they do well for the deaf kid’s sake and for the poor hearing parents who being so lost in the unknown world.
Peace!!
July 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
To Just a thought… yeah precisely. That is what this blog is about… DBC’s conflicting messages. Amy’s BLOG on DBC’s First Impression is very true too.
To Blue, I am sorry you found your own name ‘blue’ offensive each time I said it. Everything is offensive to you so I gave up guessing what you want or don’t want to hear. Shall I call you red, as in boiling mad or green as in envious or yellow as in perky? LOL. I’m just kidding here. I figured you lacked the sense of humor so I thought I’d try and instill some into you, my friend. Do yourself a favor and lighten up.
FYI, ASL Powerhouse is not a degradatory comment. It is a factual term for ‘deaf power’ or ‘ASL power’ as in Deafhood. I didn’t invent these terms. They invented it themselves. Deafhood is equally as offensive but that is how they choose to define themselves. That is what happens when one goes a bit it too radical thinking they are deaf first before they are human beings.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
There you again!
“To Blue, I am sorry you found your own name ‘blue’ offensive each time I said it. Everything is offensive to you so I gave up guessing what you want or don’t want to hear. Shall I call you red, as in boiling mad or green as in envious or yellow as in perky? LOL. I’m just kidding here. I figured you lacked the sense of humor so I thought I’d try and instill some into you, my friend. Do yourself a favor and lighten up. ”
Perhaps you like to give long condensations lectures!
But that’s alright..it show people who you really are!
And FYI:
I teach ASL coures at many, many colleges-been doing this for over 20 years- I ‘ve never heard of “ASL Powerhouse”. I checked with all of the ASL dept. professors at Gallaudet..they have never heard of it too.
Once again- you appear to invent things to suit your version of the truth.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
” I figured you lacked the sense of humor so I thought I’d try and instill some into you, my friend. Do yourself a favor and lighten up. ”
This a from a person who has No idea who I am!
yaeh, right.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Dr H and Theblues
Please take a time out and cool off
Address to the topic, not at each other. Thank you
July 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
To the blues and Dr Hocokan,
The name-calling is not productive here while others are trying to have a rational discussion about DBC’s message here. You two are driving off other commenters, is that what you want? A slugfest?
Blues, please stop calling Dr H a sociopath and “pompous”.
Dr Hocokan, please stop needling Blues about his choice of name– leave it alone, why get up into a lather over his name?
It’s “linear thinking” from opposite corners when I think about it. Like two opponents sizing each other up in the fight ring. *roll of eyes*
Neither one of you are winning any fans.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
#363 DR Hocokan “Deafhood is equally as offensive but that is how they choose to define themselves. That is what happens when one goes a bit it too radical thinking they are deaf first before they are human beings.”
Excatly facts! I rather use ” Deaf Pride ” best define shows postive and respect welcome Deaf community. Deaf Power we used old timer speak out our rights. Deafhood really sound from British term words “hood” like I said Robinhood
an English folk hero from medieval legends. Other means Hoodlum, a street tough? I don’t what we can best names for Deaf_____? Up to you.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Yeah… I guess the world lost its sense of humor for a while. A slug fest? Ha ha. I appreciate your comment… I really do. That was real funny for me and I’m catching my breath here sitting and pondering about how things are taken out of context by some people. It’s difficult to relay humorous comments via blog like this one. It’s been an interesting experience for me. Thanks Ann for stepping in to prevent a slug fest between a humorous man and a mad man. I’m still being funny here and I’ll apologize for that. Lighten up folks and see the brighter picture… stop and smell the roses and envision what’s important here.
Anyway… on a serious note. I agree with MZ and many people here in this blog. DBC produced confusing messages for many of us. That is the truth. We will get this problem corrected. Don’t know about the rest of you but I’m here to restore integrity and to put it back in its’ rightful place where it belongs. I am here to reclaim DBC’s original message and demand them to restore dignity back to bilingualism and deaf children. I am here to demand that they respect others who have made different choices. How about that?
July 6th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Up to me? I’ll pass up the opportunity to define any particular group of people. I’m going to stick to what I’ve explained in my blog. We all are human beings first before we are anything else. That’s what I’m going to stick to. ASL Powerhouse, Deaf Power, pro-ASL movement, Deafhood, Deaf or deaf… it don’t matter to me as much as it does for others.
Me? I define myself as a human being first before I am anything else because I treasure my spiritual language more than I treasure any other languages including ASL. ASL comes in second for me, and then English language comes after that. Why? Because with spiritual language I am able to connect with all living things including human beings. Why limit myself to deaf world? Read my blog if you haven’t already. Smile.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:58 am
There you go again:
“humorous man and a mad man.”
Mad man? I showed this to a group of my friends this morning, they all laugh! In fact, my supervisor said ‘He is the fool one”.
I have been saying things in response to you, pompous man.
Go back and read my postings…all of them have been in response to YOUR crazy-off the -wall postings.
Trying to bait me to come down to YOUR level is not going to work.
Assuming knowing me (without facts) and labeling me without any factual basis shows your level of incompetence.
By the way, what’s make you so sure I am a male?
That is one of many silly-off-the wall comments you continue to make about me-without any regards for the facts.
You don’t even know if I am a male or female, yet you keep on addressing and attacking me as if I am a male!
And for all of you out there- I wouldn’t take this man seriously…he has done nothing but rant and rant and rant about his feelings…instead of showing us what can we do to improve the situation!
In any one of read my previous postings you will see I have repeatedly invited this so-called “Dr” to join us, the DBC, to help us improve it. Has taken up on that offer? NO he hasn’t. Instead we get the ranting and name calling and misconstrue language from a hotter than air person!
I was not around in the beginning of the DBC, but I am now. And as someone who has a desire to assist this good organization, I have a hard time believing that anyone who has so much hated towards a cause to help deaf babies like this so-called “DR” has -he has done nothing but criticized the leaders and, by extension, the organization-can legitimately claim to have any creditably.
HE HAS NO CREDITABILITY.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:07 am
My friend… speak for yourself. I contributed four months of my time, volunteer wise towards DBC. That is more than you can say for yourself.
Yesterday I went through the evidence packages I have in my files and looked through them. I see eleven recorded AIM meetings with core group. Some are as many as 70 pages long. I also see over 500 emails circulated between myself and DBC Core group. I’m shifting through them this week. I already emailed several people the evidences of DBC’s stance against CI, Oralism and AG Bell while they claim differently in public. Such through will be disclosed to public soon. You just wait. DBC will not be able to say they have nothing against oralism, CI, or AG Bell any longer. They will have to come clean with everybody. If they don’t do it on their own term then I’ll do it for them.
It was interesting to note that you seeked your supervisor’s opinion as if you were incapable of generating your own opinion. You keep on referring to your Friends’ opinions. It reminds me of Simon Says Society. Fortunately for me I don’t have a supervisor and I’m not part of this Simon Says Society. Regardless, it is okay if you want to continue to talk about me instead of the topic of this blog. What, if any, comments in this blog did you contrinute about DBC’s confusing message? I looked up but saw that you had nothing to talk about DBC’s confusing messages but only talked about other commentors, me for instance. Go figure.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:48 am
“It was interesting to note that you seeked your supervisor’s opinion as if you were incapable of generating your own opinion. You keep on referring to your Friends’ opinions. It reminds me of Simon Says Society. Fortunately for me I don’t have a supervisor and I’m not part of this Simon Says Society. Regardless, it is okay if you want to continue to talk about me instead of the topic of this blog. What, if any, comments in this blog did you contrinute about DBC’s confusing message? I looked up but saw that you had nothing to talk about DBC’s confusing messages but only talked about other commentors, me for instance. Go figure.”
YoU ARE SO FULL OF YOURSELF!!!!!!!!
July 7th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Every one at my work is laughting at you!!!!!!!
What a really sad, bitter person you must be…
FYI:
the reason I showed my superivor is beacuse, unlike you (appearently), I have alot of friends.
They keep laughting here at my job when I showed them all of the stupid, silly comments you made (about me) over the past 2 days.
MYMYMY all of my co-workers are laughting at you!
July 7th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Theblues and Dr.H,
Despite my requests, you have continued this mudslinging, leaving me no other options except to put this blog in moderation. This has proved to be extremely disruptive to the contructive dialogue we are trying to have.
Any mudslinging comment will not be published.
Address to the topic, not the person.
Thank you.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Thanks MZ, the moderator for stepping in.
I have said my piece about DBC’s confusing messages here so I’ll be moving on. I’d like to stay focused on blogs that are based on circular movement, not linear thoughts and I’d encourage everybody to do the same. Thanks again MZ for stepping in. Best wishes ~ Barry
July 7th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Thanks, MZ, for putting this in moderation.
A valuable discussion about the future of DBC and where we all want it to be going deteriorated into a flamefest.
That was totally unfortunate, given the potential of the individuals that forgot their propriety.
#274, Deafchipmunk, is an example of the respondents whose voices were drowned out in the divisive squabbling between certain people.
Hey, cut it out, folks. You who have bones to pick about your past participation in DBC, please take it offline and stop trying to destroy something that has made some useful, if hesitant progress. Do you think DBC will be able to pick some useful tips from this discussion now?
A useful discussion has been hijacked and it’s time to end it in favor of a new blog. Don’t say anything in the future unless it is to offer concrete suggestions. Behave better and pay closer attention to the voices of reconciliation.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Dianrez,
DBC was hijacked by Deafhood Foundation before a useful discussion was hijacked here in this blog. Nobody realized it until we all began to notice confusing message coming from DBC. They did not practice what they preached so that is where we are at. We want to know why it happened and how. I know the answer because I got deep inside DBC enough to know it was the works of Deafhood Foundation which infiltrated itself into DBC’s campaign.
Half of DBC wanted to talk about bilingualism, ASL for deaf babies but the other half wanted to spit at faces of oralists and CI users and especially at AG Bell. The media saw it as the clash between signers and oralists / CI industry. How unfortunate. We are not the only one that noticed conflicting messages. The Media and the public’s eyes saw it as well.
Bad PR stuff. Bad publicity. And it all was done in name of bilingualism and I resent that. I’m on a campaign right now because I wanted everybody to know that our bilingualism movement was hijacked by Deafhood Foundation. AG Bell and everybody needs to know about it. We want another chance to represent bilingualism because we were brushed away by pro-ASL movement, that of Deafhood Foundation. And it is WRONG. I’d feel differently if they promoted their movement as Deaf ASL Coalition. But they spelled bilingualism and advertise ASL almost exclusively. Hearing people saw DBC as the wolf inside a sheep outfit.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Elizabeth-why do you let this person say the above qoute?
Really..it’s the same old stuff. Criticizing and bashing.
“The media saw it as the clash between signers and oralists / CI industry. How unfortunate. We are not the only one that noticed conflicting messages. The Media and the public’s eyes saw it as well.
“Bad PR stuff. Bad publicity. And it all was done in name of bilingualism and I resent that. I’m on a campaign right now because I wanted everybody to know that our bilingualism movement was hijacked by Deafhood Foundation. ”
What bad media? All of the press I say were wonderful.
That’s all he does.
Geez whiz.
I thought more of you.
Raphael J. St. Johns
July 8th, 2008 at 7:43 am
I have to agree with what Raphael has stated.
I thought you were a reputable ,honest person. All “Dr. Hokokan”….. YOU are letting him enjoy a platform
the blues.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am
You both know that I try not to moderate the comment section. How it goes depends on the commenters.
Theblues, I also gave YOU the platform, too. You and Dr H decided to get involved into a mudslinging contest, not me. You both decided to get personal, instead of addressing to the topic, despite my requests.
I support the freedom of expression… as long as people address to the topic, whether I agree with them or not.
It happens that I do agree about the media sending conflicting messages about audism and cochlear implants when the conference is on bilingualism.
At least two other people did agree with him about the internal dynamics of DBC, both having been core members of DBC, too. So, in this aspect, he is not alone.
All I am asking is consistency.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Yes-
July 8th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
mymymy…I did not say anythging offensive in my last response. Yet-you delete most of my post.
It’s really A sad day.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Theblues, I repeatedly requested for NO personal remarks for the other commenters and you repeatedly disregarded my request.
Hence your comment was deleted because you are trying to incite another flame war. You and Dr H already hijacked my blog and abused it for your personal vendetta against each other, ruining a beautiful dialogue for others to participate.
Participation is a privilege not to be abused.
Thank you
July 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Theblues, I also gave YOU the platform, too. You and Dr H decided to get involved into a mudslinging contest, not me. You both decided to get personal, instead of addressing to the topic, despite my requests.
I tried to stick to the topic. Please go back and read it again- I kept asking questions and gave ideals,i.e. perhaps a meeting between the two sides etc..
It was “dr. Hokokan ” xxxxxx me time after time…you should have step in and told him not to do that…but instead you did NOTHING.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Actually, no. You both are old enough to conduct yourself appropriate without restoring into a flame war. I am not your nanny, nor am I Dr H’s nanny.
As it turned out, I was away from the computer most of the time during this post.
If I were you, I would have ignored him and continued to discuss the topic. If I were you, I wouldn’t permit myself to be baited. Only you are responsible for your behavior, not me, not anyone else.
I recalled you got into a flaming war with another poster last summer, resulting in me putting the blog in moderation.
Please address to the topic, from now on. I have given you enough warnings already.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
I ran into another interesting VLOG / Blog at http://lenois.com/?p=117. It was rather interesting because first question generated wrong First Impression. Second and third and fourth question also generated wrong impressions. Nearly every questions demonstrated bashing efforts against AG Bell and oralism. See it for yourself. This video was taken and released by a private citizen. Not videotaped and released by DBC. I copied that tape in case they erase it later.
Many of the questions were tricky as if they thought it was AG Bell’s job to define things for us. Actually it is DBC’s job to define and present ASL / Bilingual facts. Barb finally asked the right question in the very end, proposing a summit between AG Bell, DBC and NAD. Just as soon as I thought they finally had some dignity David called AG Bell a Square Head. That’s right he signed it loud and clear on the video. Based on his degradatory comment at the end we can understand why AG Bell rejected an interview and will likely reject a summit.
July 9th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I just viewed the interview with AG Bell President, Jay at http://deafanthology.blogspot.com/2008/07/da-vlog-interview-with-ag-bell.html and was surprised to see that most if not all Barb’s hot air (questions) never made it to the interview. Barb demonstrated so much hyper on the stage but in reality the interview was moderately managed. An interesting point to make. Jay with AG Bell said that DBC has never prepared a formal letter or seek formal meeting to introduce itself and seek dialogue with the organization. In short, DBC jumped the gun and prepared a costly rally ($35,000 or more) without allowing for due process first. All that expensive rally have in Milwaukee been done in vain. Deaf people who paid their expenses to attend did it in vain because DBC misled them. A simple formal letter of introduction to AG Bell would have led us to healthy dialogue with AG Bell and seek solutions. Now, how did it not happen and why?
Simple answers. Deafhood. Deafhood is more interested in making hearing people and AG Bell look bad in order to validate itself and to empower its movement. Second reason. Ella, John and their DBC Core Group only understand intimidation tactics because that is what Deafhood promotes. Evidently it backfired. This is an embarrassment.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Reason for hide agenda: Money. DBC is associated with the Deafhood Foundation. Free publicity on Deafhood in DBC leads to more Deafhood workshops benefiting Deafhood leaders financially.