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	<title>Comments on: Wait! Blogs Aren&#8217;t Fully Accessible, Either!</title>
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		<title>By: Ben Vess</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7791</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Vess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7791</guid>
		<description>Hey Mishka,

I apologize for posting this a bit late LOL. I&#039;d like to point out something that might have been missed here: vlogs and blogs are like apples and oranges.

I believe you would be better off comparing vlogs to podcasts. Both takes on the form of a &quot;spoken&quot; language. It&#039;s like Cantonese asking for Cantonese translations for Mandarin. When it comes to the written form, it is Chinese for both speakers.

Blogs are in written form and vlogs are not. Basically, what it seems from your posting is that illiterates should be accomodated. Well, I would say that is debatable. I&#039;m not sure if this is a floodgate we should open so easily...

Asking for ASL vlogs to translate English written blogs seems to accomodate more for the illiterates than not. This opens the doors for illiterate English speaker to ask for a spoken translation of the blogs, vlogs and so forth.

Is this a risk we should take? To defend the illiterates? Does that make us no better than Americans who demand the spanish speaking population learn English and be able to read and write it?

I know two languages and I know you do, as well, Mishka. We had the responsibility to learn that for ourselves and the society we live in. I wouldn&#039;t confuse so easily the ability to speak a language and being literate.

There may be others that do not know two languages as we do, or be as comfortable with both like we are. Should we accomodate them or should we demand that they raise their bar to our standards? I always felt that my being able to access in two languages was solely my responsibility.

If they want to be included in written dialogue that&#039;s in the blogs then it is expected they know the written language. If they would like to have it translated then it is their responsibility to translate it, not the author&#039;s. One does not enter an English internet forum and respond in French, and only in French.

My blog does not really have room for vlogs. When I do add a vlog in my blog, I get comments in vlogs. That plays into my decision of keeping the blog mainly written English. My blog is accessible to everyone who can read English and I have expectations that comments and stuff be in the same language and provide the same access to every English reader.

It&#039;s like going to written French blogs and asking for English translations then responding in English. No, I think it&#039;s the reader&#039;s responsibility to translate the French into English and have their comments translated into French before posting it.

That&#039;s just me :)

-Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mishka,</p>
<p>I apologize for posting this a bit late LOL. I&#8217;d like to point out something that might have been missed here: vlogs and blogs are like apples and oranges.</p>
<p>I believe you would be better off comparing vlogs to podcasts. Both takes on the form of a &#8220;spoken&#8221; language. It&#8217;s like Cantonese asking for Cantonese translations for Mandarin. When it comes to the written form, it is Chinese for both speakers.</p>
<p>Blogs are in written form and vlogs are not. Basically, what it seems from your posting is that illiterates should be accomodated. Well, I would say that is debatable. I&#8217;m not sure if this is a floodgate we should open so easily&#8230;</p>
<p>Asking for ASL vlogs to translate English written blogs seems to accomodate more for the illiterates than not. This opens the doors for illiterate English speaker to ask for a spoken translation of the blogs, vlogs and so forth.</p>
<p>Is this a risk we should take? To defend the illiterates? Does that make us no better than Americans who demand the spanish speaking population learn English and be able to read and write it?</p>
<p>I know two languages and I know you do, as well, Mishka. We had the responsibility to learn that for ourselves and the society we live in. I wouldn&#8217;t confuse so easily the ability to speak a language and being literate.</p>
<p>There may be others that do not know two languages as we do, or be as comfortable with both like we are. Should we accomodate them or should we demand that they raise their bar to our standards? I always felt that my being able to access in two languages was solely my responsibility.</p>
<p>If they want to be included in written dialogue that&#8217;s in the blogs then it is expected they know the written language. If they would like to have it translated then it is their responsibility to translate it, not the author&#8217;s. One does not enter an English internet forum and respond in French, and only in French.</p>
<p>My blog does not really have room for vlogs. When I do add a vlog in my blog, I get comments in vlogs. That plays into my decision of keeping the blog mainly written English. My blog is accessible to everyone who can read English and I have expectations that comments and stuff be in the same language and provide the same access to every English reader.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like going to written French blogs and asking for English translations then responding in English. No, I think it&#8217;s the reader&#8217;s responsibility to translate the French into English and have their comments translated into French before posting it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just me <img src='http://www.mishkazena.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>-Ben</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; DeafRead, Deaf Village, Aggregators, Part V: Flogging A Deaf Horse</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7790</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; DeafRead, Deaf Village, Aggregators, Part V: Flogging A Deaf Horse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7790</guid>
		<description>[...] - A True Village? Nay! DeafRead, Deaf Village, and Aggregators Let’s support closed captions! Wait! Blogs Aren’t Fully Accessible, Either! My Reason to find this Deaf Village’s Silly Policy….. Wait! Blogs Aren’t Fully [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; A True Village? Nay! DeafRead, Deaf Village, and Aggregators Let’s support closed captions! Wait! Blogs Aren’t Fully Accessible, Either! My Reason to find this Deaf Village’s Silly Policy….. Wait! Blogs Aren’t Fully [...]</p>
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		<title>By: valerie</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7789</link>
		<dc:creator>valerie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7789</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth,

Thank you for the reply. I am in an ASL class. It is difficult since I am an auditory learner and my own child&#039;s busy schedule. I am sticking to it. I don&#039;t use vlogs to learn ASL, I enjoy them. I want to see what they have to say. I read all blogs and vlgos whether I agree or disagree with them. It is all a process of learning.

My goal is to learn enough to have a conversation with a dear friend who I met through blogging.

Valerie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth,</p>
<p>Thank you for the reply. I am in an ASL class. It is difficult since I am an auditory learner and my own child&#8217;s busy schedule. I am sticking to it. I don&#8217;t use vlogs to learn ASL, I enjoy them. I want to see what they have to say. I read all blogs and vlgos whether I agree or disagree with them. It is all a process of learning.</p>
<p>My goal is to learn enough to have a conversation with a dear friend who I met through blogging.</p>
<p>Valerie</p>
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		<title>By: Shelley Potma</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7788</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley Potma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 00:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7788</guid>
		<description>Janis, you&#039;re welcome to be a stubborn curmudgeon any time. Your attitude is a refreshing breath of fresh air. I know that was a redundant sentence, but it&#039;s true.

It&#039;s unfortunate that you&#039;re right we don&#039;t have the same luxury as you do. This makes allies like you all the more valued.

Cheers,
Shelley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janis, you&#8217;re welcome to be a stubborn curmudgeon any time. Your attitude is a refreshing breath of fresh air. I know that was a redundant sentence, but it&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that you&#8217;re right we don&#8217;t have the same luxury as you do. This makes allies like you all the more valued.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Shelley</p>
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		<title>By: Janis</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7787</link>
		<dc:creator>Janis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7787</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s also important to keep in mind that I am not really here as a hearie but as someone who adores languages.  I can afford to take a &quot;STFU AND LEARN!&quot; attitude.  And since I&#039;m hearing, it&#039;s not so personal -- which also makes it easier for me to be pretty black-and-white about it all.  I&#039;ve got the luxury of being involved by choice, which means I can be as curmudgeonly and stubborn as I want, and come down &lt;i&gt;hard&lt;/i&gt; on the side of the language every single time.  It&#039;s a &lt;i&gt;language&lt;/i&gt; issue for me, not an &lt;i&gt;access&lt;/i&gt; issue.  And it&#039;s the fact that I&#039;m hearing that makes that possible.  Again, that&#039;s a luxury that no d/Deaf person has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also important to keep in mind that I am not really here as a hearie but as someone who adores languages.  I can afford to take a &#8220;STFU AND LEARN!&#8221; attitude.  And since I&#8217;m hearing, it&#8217;s not so personal &#8212; which also makes it easier for me to be pretty black-and-white about it all.  I&#8217;ve got the luxury of being involved by choice, which means I can be as curmudgeonly and stubborn as I want, and come down <i>hard</i> on the side of the language every single time.  It&#8217;s a <i>language</i> issue for me, not an <i>access</i> issue.  And it&#8217;s the fact that I&#8217;m hearing that makes that possible.  Again, that&#8217;s a luxury that no d/Deaf person has.</p>
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		<title>By: Janis</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7786</link>
		<dc:creator>Janis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7786</guid>
		<description>I just lose patience when people seem to actively resist new information, especially languages.  I know that not everyone can do what I do with them, but for every hearing person that says, &quot;It&#039;s different for other people, it&#039;s hard,&quot; I can only say to multiply that by a thousand for deaf people trying to learn English when they went without language at the worst possible time.

It seems to me that they don&#039;t really want to interact with people, to share, learn, or converse.  They just want to know that someone somewhere is killing themselves 24/7 to be like them, to put them at the center of their universe.  It&#039;s validation they want, not human connection.  If they really cared, honestly cared about connecting, they&#039;d put out the effort themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just lose patience when people seem to actively resist new information, especially languages.  I know that not everyone can do what I do with them, but for every hearing person that says, &#8220;It&#8217;s different for other people, it&#8217;s hard,&#8221; I can only say to multiply that by a thousand for deaf people trying to learn English when they went without language at the worst possible time.</p>
<p>It seems to me that they don&#8217;t really want to interact with people, to share, learn, or converse.  They just want to know that someone somewhere is killing themselves 24/7 to be like them, to put them at the center of their universe.  It&#8217;s validation they want, not human connection.  If they really cared, honestly cared about connecting, they&#8217;d put out the effort themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelley Potma</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7785</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley Potma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7785</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Mishka, I missed it too.  OOPS. NOW your comment makes sense! My apologies. I agree with Mishka, Valerie.

Shelley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mishka, I missed it too.  OOPS. NOW your comment makes sense! My apologies. I agree with Mishka, Valerie.</p>
<p>Shelley</p>
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		<title>By: Mishka Zena</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7784</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishka Zena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7784</guid>
		<description>Shelley, it is way back up at # 70.  I missed it during the heated discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shelley, it is way back up at # 70.  I missed it during the heated discussions.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelley Potma</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7783</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley Potma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7783</guid>
		<description>Mishka,

I&#039;m a bit confused.  Isn&#039;t your comment supposed to be at Banjo&#039;s World? I don&#039;t see Valerie&#039;s comment here to which you&#039;re responding.

Shel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mishka,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit confused.  Isn&#8217;t your comment supposed to be at Banjo&#8217;s World? I don&#8217;t see Valerie&#8217;s comment here to which you&#8217;re responding.</p>
<p>Shel</p>
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		<title>By: Mishka Zena</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/comment-page-3/#comment-7782</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishka Zena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/06/18/wait-blogs-arent-fully-accessible-either/#comment-7782</guid>
		<description>Valerie, believe me, I do understand. I&#039;ve sat in hearing classrooms, not always understanding the teachers, and just like you, I wouldn&#039;t want that experience again. However, when I went to the college, I sat in the classrooms again, not understanding anything because I didn&#039;t know ASL. There was one excellent teacher I couldn&#039;t lipread because he wasn&#039;t able to mouth his words. Through the semester, I never understood anything. All I could do is keep watching, trying to understand, and practice and practice like crazy. It took me a long time to get where I am.  Perhaps you can watch the vlogs, even though you don&#039;t understand. Just watch and practice. However, if it&#039;s still stressful, then don&#039;t bother as it&#039;s not worth the stress.

Meanwhile, I would suggest that you take sign language classes. Interaction with proficient ASL users in person is really the best way to learn ASL. If one has problems finding someone to practice, then think about hiring an ASL instructor. If it is cost prohibitive, organize a club for new ASL users.

If you want to talk more about this, please do feel free to contact me at mishkazena@aol.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valerie, believe me, I do understand. I&#8217;ve sat in hearing classrooms, not always understanding the teachers, and just like you, I wouldn&#8217;t want that experience again. However, when I went to the college, I sat in the classrooms again, not understanding anything because I didn&#8217;t know ASL. There was one excellent teacher I couldn&#8217;t lipread because he wasn&#8217;t able to mouth his words. Through the semester, I never understood anything. All I could do is keep watching, trying to understand, and practice and practice like crazy. It took me a long time to get where I am.  Perhaps you can watch the vlogs, even though you don&#8217;t understand. Just watch and practice. However, if it&#8217;s still stressful, then don&#8217;t bother as it&#8217;s not worth the stress.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I would suggest that you take sign language classes. Interaction with proficient ASL users in person is really the best way to learn ASL. If one has problems finding someone to practice, then think about hiring an ASL instructor. If it is cost prohibitive, organize a club for new ASL users.</p>
<p>If you want to talk more about this, please do feel free to contact me at <a href="mailto:mishkazena@aol.com">mishkazena@aol.com</a></p>
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