Wait!. Blogs Aren’t Fully Accessible, Either!
Watching the fray about the captioning of ASL vlogs, I can understand where Carl Schroeder is coming from. Yes, captioning would benefit Deaf Blind Community, Deaf people, including foreign Deaf, who don’t understand ASL, and hearing people. Personally I don’t think it’s fair to accuse vloggers of not being inclusive due to their refusal to subtitle for several reasons.
The ASL vloggers are being asked to do two jobs, not just captioning, but also translating from one language to another language, which involves intensive work than just transcribing alone. It gets more complicated if English is their second language. Writing English may not come easy for some ASL vloggers and they become self-conscious, having been the recipient of harsh criticism in the past. Preoccupation with the translation from ASL to English can stifle their creativity in expressing themselves. Being asked to translate and transcribe may constitute undue hardship for ASL vloggers.
Yet, on the other hand, I see nobody accusing the bloggers of being exclusive. Because many Deaf people are more comfortable in their first language, they prefer ASL than written English. As a second language, written English may not be fully accessible for all ASL readers. This preference for ASL is especially noted at DeafRead where vlogs consistently receive more hits than blogs. So why aren’t the bloggers inclusive by providing ASL versions?
By the way, I’ve been approached by many Deaf people about making my blogs accessible to other Deaf people, especially the grassroot Deaf people. I nodded affirmatively. Unfortunately it is too difficult with my health limitations, much to my deep regret. Ironically, if I could, I rather do vlogging than blogging as ASL comes very naturally for me nowadays, being more expressive and rich than written English. I did ask for volunteers, but didn’t get any. I am still amenable to work with a volunteer.
For the some people accusing ASL vloggers for being exclusive when their own blogs aren’t inclusive, it may be called as hypocrisy.
We need to come up with workable solutions.. without judging others
P.S. I knew I forgot something, but thanks to Coco, I remember.
ASLPride suggest a good solution With that video program, the screen is enlarged full size.
http://aslpride.blogspot.com/2008/02/did-you-know-that-my-asl-vlog-is.html
This may be accessible to most DB users who enjoys viewing ASL.
P.P.S Barb has a similar theme in her blog http://deafprogressivism.blogspot.com/2008/02/lets-stop-drop-and-roll.html
Watching the fray about the captioning of ASL vlogs, I can understand where Carl Schroeder is coming from. Yes, captioning would benefit Deaf Blind Community, Deaf people, including foreign Deaf, who don’t understand ASL, and hearing people. Personally I don’t think it’s fair to accuse vloggers of not being inclusive due to their refusal to subtitle for several reasons.
The ASL vloggers are being asked to do two jobs, not just captioning, but also translating from one language to another language, which involves intensive work than just transcribing alone. It gets more complicated if English is their second language. Writing English may not come easy for some ASL vloggers and they become self-conscious, having been the recipient of harsh criticism in the past. Preoccupation with the translation from ASL to English can stifle their creativity in expressing themselves. Being asked to translate and transcribe may constitute undue hardship for ASL vloggers.
Yet, on the other hand, I see nobody accusing the bloggers of being exclusive. Because many Deaf people are more comfortable in their first language, they prefer ASL than written English. As a second language, written English may not be fully accessible for all ASL readers. This preference for ASL is especially noted at DeafRead where vlogs consistently receive more hits than blogs. So why aren’t the bloggers inclusive by providing ASL versions?
By the way, I’ve been approached by many Deaf people about making my blogs accessible to other Deaf people, especially the grassroot Deaf people. I nodded affirmatively. Unfortunately it is too difficult with my health limitations, much to my deep regret. Ironically, if I could, I rather do vlogging than blogging as ASL comes very naturally for me nowadays, being more expressive and rich than written English. I did ask for volunteers, but didn’t get any. I am still amenable to work with a volunteer.
For the some people accusing ASL vloggers for being exclusive when their own blogs aren’t inclusive, it may be called as hypocrisy.
We need to come up with workable solutions.. without judging others
P.S. I knew I forgot something, but thanks to Coco, I remember.
ASLPride suggest a good solution With that video program, the screen is enlarged full size.
http://aslpride.blogspot.com/2008/02/did-you-know-that-my-asl-vlog-is.html
This may be accessible to most DB users who enjoys viewing ASL.
P.P.S Barb has a similar theme in her blog http://deafprogressivism.blogspot.com/2008/02/lets-stop-drop-and-roll.html
February 14th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Hypocrisy is such a strong word.
You have not stopped to think: how many people who blog have webcams? Right now, I don’t have one, haven’t had a working one for three months.
While I can see the IRONY through your blog about accessibility, I don’t see any SUGGESTIONS on how to deal with this situation.
I mentioned in my blog today that no one should FORCE others to subtitle their vlogs, rather, find someone who could. I have a few volunteers who do transcriptions for me. But there should be a central service to do subtitling/transcribing – has anyone thought about asking NAD to set up a branch for something like this? Submit, they do the translation for you with support from CDIs – this could turn into a grant project.
I don’t like to be called a hypocrite, it stings. I just don’t have a webcam anymore. For others, it could be an idea for bloggers to vlog concurrently.
hugs, coco
February 14th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Are you saying that many are in fact illiterate or that they have limited English skills to navigate a written blog? Rehashing the old “4th grade” reading skill (which, btw, was a study about 17 and 18 year old deaf high school students and not the general deaf adult population) thing again. What are the suggestions? I understand about visual limitations but what about those who have little or no grasp of the English language? For the lack of a better word here, “dumb down” our writings?
What?
The topic was about ASL vlogs and about the Deaf community’s tendency to prefer them over written blogs. And that issue extended to those Deaf signing community who happens to have restricted vision that a signing ASL vlog may not be enough to understand completely what’s going on.
As for the hypocrisy bit, are you saying people like Patty, who is DB, as being a hypocrite for suggesting that ASL vlogs have at least subtitles to them?
Just wondering here while I muse.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Oh, Coco, dear I wasn’t thinking about you when I wrote this post. Not at all. You vlog a lot, by the way.
I mean for others who can but don’t while they are criticizing the others the most.
Coco did you see my comment in your vlog? I meant to include it in my blog. I knew I’ve forgotten something. Thanks for reminding me
February 14th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Mike, did I say dumb-down English? I never said that. I said ASL-friendly. By the way, why aren’t you having yours numerous blogs ASL-accessible? You decry others the loudest for not making their vlogs accessible to Deafblind, but what about your own actions to ASL Deaf people?
February 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I provide subtitles because I prefer to speak. DeafRead doesn’t say it’s an ASL-only vlog aggregator site, does it? It’s open to any one who want to discuss deaf-related issues and topics.
The vlog issue was brought up by a DB person, Patty, and not me, who thanked me for providing subtitles to my vlogs did I realize the gravity of the situation. They were the ones trying to shout the loudest but no one seem to have heard them…until now. And that’s good. Keeps everybody on their toes, including you.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Accessibility on a blog is quite different than accessibility on a vlog. The difference is primarily that if a blogger has not made their site accessible, we have the means to make it accessible ourselves.
For example, I use FireFox web browser. Your website uses a glaring white background which is hurtful on the eyes of those of us sensitive to light. My solution? I have the Accessibar plugin for Firefox and presto, I can immediately change the color of your website to fit my visual needs. I can change the background color, the text color, and even the font color.
For hearing Blind people, Accessibar even provides a Read Aloud function. I’ve never used it, so I don’t know how well it works.
There’s another plugin called Accessibility which can be used to measure the accessibility of a site. This helps to ensure that braille readers can effectively read text and move around properly from box to box on a site.
Furthermore, Firefox is now currently in version 2.0. Soon in a couple of months version 3.0 will be released. The Firefox community has worked VERY HARD with different accessibility software groups to make FireFox even more accessible. Already, those of us who are testing FireFox in beta are very excited about the results.
Anyway, the point is, your blog may not be accessible designed, but at least there are tools that allow people like me to help rectify the matter. The same doesn’t exist for vlogs.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Yes.
However, this still doesn’t address the other issue as the some ASL users get left out by the written English blogs. These aren’t accessible to them.
Where is a good solution? Barb uses another option solution: vlogging and blogging simultaneously, but not everybody can do it, hence my point.
We just have to try our best and not judge others.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Right, Bryen. I am aware of that. Just as Microsoft Word has a built in speech processor that you can copy and paste words and listen to them for those who are hearing and visually impaired or blind.
Really, technology is key to help people become more independent in their communication access. It continues to improve.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
No offense taken
Thanks Bryen for an enlightening comment. I’m looking forward to the 3.0, also.
Mishka is right, we shouldn’t judge others. Let’s develop a think tank. Can Deafread do that? Let the think tank committee confer on how to solve accessibility issues and make valid suggestions to customers and organizations?
hugs, coco
February 14th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Mishka, there is already a working technology that can convert voice or text to sign language. Only in time will this part of the blogging and vlogging experience a few years down the road.
http://www.fsdb.k12.fl.us/rmc/training/techtools/voice2text2sign.html
February 14th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
maybe someday DBies will be able to “feel” vlogs. that would be cool!
February 14th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I wholly disagree that blogs leave out people who prefer ASL. English is every ASLan’s secondary language. Besides ANY DEAF PERSON who turns on a computer and uses a keyboard MUST know how to read at minimum.
Sure, they may prefer ASL and they may skip blogs…but blogs are accessible to them if they desire. If they cannot read then they really can’t use a computer anyway.
So, there is no need to make blogs “ASL accessible”.
However, vlogs should be made accessible by offering a transcript at minimum REGARDLESS of how bad someone’s English could be. When I read “bad English” I can imagine how they processed the words in their minds via ASL and still get the message.
Last, but not least…offering a transcript is not only for the deaf-blind..but people like myself who do not want to view EVERY vlog in its entirity…or check DeafRead via my sidekick pager which does not offer video…or foregin people who don’t know ASL and want to use the transcript to run it thru a translation software…hearing people who don’t know ASL…etc..etc…
Some ASL vloggers have come out and stated that their audience is ONLY other ASL people..and that’s fine by me…it is their right to do so.
I just believe that it should be a common courtesty to offer transcripts at a minimum.
Just my 2 cents….er…make that 2 dollars
February 14th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I don’t think I have seen one person declare that all Vlogs should be subtitled or captioned. No one is forcing anyone or anything. It is just simply a matter of letting the public that the options is out there and that people would greatly benefit from it.
It is just like an annoucement of asking people to conserve water during a drought to ensure that everyone will have water. No one is forcing anything, it is strictly an option.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I agree, JJPuorro, re: ASLan’s ability to read.
Originally no one had accused anyone of refusing to provide accessibility until a DB person brought up that Mike’s subtitling his vlogs were helpful, that is when the discussion started. No one accused anyone of anything. That is, until some ASLans started to get upset and took the discussion in a wrong way. I think many of us understand that if we could do it “this” way, it will be beneficial to a certain group of people.
If one is unable to for any reason, sure, no one is going to make anyone do something they don’t want to.
Why all the fuss?
*whistling*
February 14th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
jj, I was told by a good number of Deaf people that my blogs aren’t fully accessible to some grassroot Deaf people. Oh, by the way, they are able to operate computers.
Candy, you may not have been around here when the first fiasco over captioning of ASL vlogs occurred. Some deaf people who weren’t familiar with ASL complained about ASL Vlogs not being accessible to oral deaf people and hearing people, instructing them that they should caption their vlogs. That didn’t go well with ASL vloggers, partly due to the long history of oppression of ASL and the oppression by hearing and oral deaf people in Deaf culture.
My point is that there are at least two sides to all issues. Nobody should feel required to caption their vlogs nor do everybody feel the pressure to make their blogs fully accessible to ASL users, unless they are comfortable and able to use the technology.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I was here from the get go…seek geo and so on…
February 14th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I also haven’t seen anyone on DR saying that a vlogger or blogger HAS to subtitle. But the subtitling does help some deaf, such as the deaf-blind understand the vlog message better, and it will make a v/blog appeal to a wider audience as well.
I like how some people are coming up with suggestions or technology solutions to help with making accessibility easier/faster for the v/bloggers. Open software developers are some of the best in the internet community, and we can pose what the internet accessibility problems are for us to these developers. These guys love nothing more than a challenge to their skills. Glad to hear Mozilla has already moved forward with accessibility plug-ins and their 3.0 version with improved accessibility will soon be out.
Accessibility benefits all of us on DR. With a wider audience, many more people will get an understanding of d/Deaf issues. The internet already has a great impact on our lives and can be our “voice” in a very public way in bringing about the changes we’d like to see in deaf education, communication access, employment issues, and so many other changes we’d like to see in our lifetimes. Thru the internet one can reach millions of people.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
My friend who is a studentinterpreter views Carl in the ASL vlog and understands it more easily than other ASL vlog which is hard. Her preference is ASL vlog without subtitles because she needs to increase his skill visual as ASL.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
My friend who is a student interpreter views Carl in the ASL vlog and understands it more easily than other ASL vlog which is hard. Her preference is ASL vlog without subtitles because she needs to increase his skill visual as ASL.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Uh huh, There is a big difference when one says “I’m unable to subtitle because I am unable or I don’t have time” and when one says “NO! I refuse to subtitle because me sick tired of hearing take over, no more!” Now someone chimes in and says “OH, OH, wait a min…one more! – bloggers are just as guilty of not making your post accessible”.
Two big differences plus one, and that is when much ado about nothing happens.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Hello,
February 14th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I stand corrected, Mishka.
My wife pointed out to me that some folks use the computer and aren’t always able to comprehend everything written.
OK, you said you have been looking for someone to ASL-ize your blogs? I volunteer…but not too often OK?? Just FYI.
February 14th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Where is my post?
February 14th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Hi, thanks, MZ, for turning the cart around and waking me up to making my blogs accessible with vlogs. Good point. Some time ago a blogger described how to make a vlog and another how to make captions. Since then there have been many improvements and changes, so would someone out there kindly make a how-to again, please?
February 14th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Hi MZ– You know, I’ve been aware of this for awhile. It’s clear to me some people in DeafRead aren’t understanding my blogs, just from some of the comments they’ve made.
I agree a solution needs to be found, yet we need to realize that within the d/Deaf/HH community we don’t all speak the same language. Many bloggers don’t know ASL well enough to even begin to do an ASL vlog– but I appreciate the point you’ve made here.
I don’t want to insult anyone, but I do simplify the langauge in my blogs and include more pictures— NOT because I think anyone is stupid. It’s natural to do this. I’m used to working with populations of people who speak English as a second language. These people are often smarter than me, but they simply don’t grasp English all that well. Using simpler language helps to get my points across. So that’s what I do and I can use even simpler language if it increases understanding. I’m a mom. I’ve been doing this for years. I can explain anything in preschool vocabulary if need be.
Please realize my ASL is like a four-year-old’s, OK?
So I do understand. . .
February 14th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
It’s possible in the future that vloggers could put on special sensors on the hands which would be tiny and not picked up visually by cameras. The sensors would record the spatial movements of the vloggers hands when they sign, when they are creating a vlog. Later, Deaf blind people could access this special signal/recorded information. The signal could be used to have some kind of recreation in physical space of the signs and the deaf blind people could use their tactile sense to follow along.
It might happen 10 or 20 years from now, but this technology could be developed.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Good post! Double standards eh? I still believe you should’ve won Blogger of the Year award. I respect those who seek for the truth rather than playing it safe behind a mask. As for the rest, they’re full of shit as usual.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Right, Brian. Just like 360 degrees 3D holographic display. And you can feel it!
February 14th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I am good at writing but the problem is I can’t translate from either from ASL to English or English to ASL. I think I can start with English first then go from there. Again I don’t have the program to set up the subtitles yet. I kinda lag behind on technology stuffs. It is all up to everyone who feels comfortable in setting up the subtitles or not. I feel for others who are an ASL beginner, Deaf Oralists, Deaf-Blind and many more. I want everyone to feel safe and comfortable here in Deafread.com or the other Deaf websites.
I can summarize the brief paragraph under my vlog. I do my best as I can.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Again, I want to make sure the font are large and readable in my blogger website. As you can see my English skill is not that great compared to others. That’s okay with me thou. I do my best as I can.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Misha Zena,
Now you getting there baby and kiss both my ear because you getting better now eh? Go highwayman down on the country road whoo yaa hoo!
Davy
February 14th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Dear Elizabeth,
Blest est J.J. Puorro for offering you as your translator. He is bilingual.
Rest assured, you remain my favourite blogger, even without a sign language translator, Elizabeth. Also,
a number of my GU alumni friends are your fans.
Stokoe says that ASL is a true and real language
that DOES meet the universal rules of grammar
(Chomsky, 1957). Therefore, ASL is quite translatable.
All one has to do is to translate a language
EQUIVALENTLY — NOT LITERALLY. Why? Because if translated literally, a reader would lose original idioms of a language.
Do not worry.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:57 am
I tried to comment in the blog see if it is working.
March 15th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Indeed, many hearies sent me messages that they couldn’t understand everything I signed and wanted me to set up subtitles to allow them read my subtitles. I really don’t find it to add from the beginning to the end? I am really an ignorant person to do subtitles….Sorry, hearies! Huggyangel
June 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
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