” I do understand that you are trying to teach them to be “human beings and to accept themselves”. However, how can they truly accept themselves if they are Deaf, yet do not have the skills/language to operate in their own Deaf community? Why are they not mingling with people like themselves?

It’s the values that the parents instilled in their children. In this case, it’s the values that you instilled in your children.

I’m conflicted. I’m a parent, and in that sense, I agree with you 100%. But, as a Deaf person, I am absolutely disgusted.”

Erick,

I don’t understand why you are “disgusted.” There are so many things that go into making us who we are, and for Rachel her deafness is just a piece of who she is. Her deafness does not define her. It certainly has affected her life, and she readily acknowledges that. It has brought people into her life who would not have been there otherwise. She is still incredibly close to her former A-V therapist, who has become like a favorite aunt to both of my girls. What exactly defines “people like themselves?” Why does her being deaf mean that she must base who she identifies with and who she socializes with on this alone? She is a photographer who loves her work on her school’s newspaper. Her close friends at school work on the newspaper with her. They have that interest and effort in common.

We are Jewish. For my inlaws, this has been the overriding factor in their social lives. When Rachel first started college, they told her to find the Jewish groups, to which she replied that she doesn’t use religion as a basis for her friendships, that she likes diversity and finding friend who, first and foremost, share her values and interests. If she chooses one thing to define herself primarily, should it be her deafness or her Jewishness? Maybe instead, all the pieces go into making her the person she is.

As for why she learned French and not ASL – Well, first of all, her high school offered only two languages, Spanish and French. She chose French because I speak it and so could help her. I am very proud of her for achieving what she has with French. She has mastered the language, including speaking it. This is something that I’d be proud of her for doing regardless of whether she had been born deaf or not, but especially because she did have to work harder to achieve it than her normal hearing peers. Why does the fact that she chose to learn French have any bearing on her not opting to learn ASL? In high school, she became very involved with the French Club and served as its president for two years. This group of friends who shared a love for learning the French language and learning about the French culture formed a big part of her social life in high school. Again, I fail to see what is wrong with this.

I am very sorry for what you went through. It is not the norm, but I certainly don’t doubt what you are saying. I hope for you that there is a medical professional out there who will one day be able to help you. I also understand fully your choice to be immersed in the deaf culture, but why can’t you acknowledge that just because it was right for you doesn’t make it right for all who are born deaf? If Rachel is happy and fulfilled in her life, then what is “disgusting?”

Firstly, the success rate is exceptionally high – over 90%. The failure rate and surgery problems very low.

Secondly, answering your questions:
“the possible things that could go wrong with the surgery”. The five things my surgeon discussed at length, with both me and my husband, apart from the usual risks of surgery, were (1) damaging the facial nerve and (2) the taste nerve. (3)There was also the risk that the implant would not work for me. (4)My expectations of the implant. (5) They would not be able to get the implant into my Cochlear from some physical reason.

My left ear was implanted and I had heard nothing for 30 years in that ear so my hearing nerve had, had no stimulation in that time. But we chose that ear, with reasonable expectation that it would ‘wake up’ and I had a skerrick of hearing in my right ear (5%) which we/I wanted to save.

“a list of expectations of (your) hearing experience afterwards”?
The surgeons and audiologists were exceptionally clear and even downbeat about what I could expect from the implant. They really did not want to raise my expectations and said at best I would understand speech at worst environmental sounds and it would aid lip reading. I might also have needed remedial hearing training. It was not expected music appreciation would be an outcome.

However, my expectations were higher despite all this. I believed it would work and it would all sound normal to me again. I can’t say why I felt this especially since they had been very, very clear about what I might expect. They discussed about taking the time to learn to hear again; how my brain may need to take time to understand the new stimulus.

However, for me none of this occurred. The operation was routine, out of hospital in 2 days, healed in two weeks, switched on 4 weeks later. I was able to understand speech without the need for lip reading within a few minutes of processor activation although it did sound unusual. I had been warned about this too because it almost is at activation because you can’t take the full spectrum of sound. I expected/hoped it would be perfect immediately (silly me!) but this was due to the hearing nerve waking up. (If you walk into a bright light your eyes take a few minutes to adjust, so why I expected a hearing nerve which had had no sound for 30 years would wake up immediately I don’t know!) But sound improved the next day when I had further programming and things started to sound as I remembered them. I have never looked back. I use a phone, go to meetings, movies, listen to the radio, listen to music and best of all enjoy playing the piano again.

“Another question: Did the surgeon who read you the list advise you that once you accepted the terms you could not sue him if something went wrong after the surgery? Have you heard of people who have won a lawsuit for “malpractice” after agreeing to have a surgery?”

No. There was no talk of anything like this. In Australia this sort of thing doesn’t happen much. There are only about 2-3000 CIs in Australia and while I know of a few implants which have failed (for any number of reasons not necessarily to do with the implant) there haven’t been any malpractice suits that I know of.

Some statistics:
In 2005, more than 65,000 people had been implanted in 70 countries (This was more than 100,000 by Feb 2007)

Reliability:
Cochlear takes reliability very seriously. Any devices which stop working are analysed by a team of specialists to find out why. Four years post implant 99.7% of devices implanted in adults and 99% in children continued to function normally. 15 years post implant, reliability was 96.8% in adults and 92.7% in children. Failures in child implants is largely due to increased risk of trauma in energetic children. Remember that anyone who’s been implanted 15 years has an older technology implant but I know a lady who is still going strong and has been implanted for 21 years.

Assessment criteria:
As a guide line: Open set speech perception <70% better ear and <40% in the worse ear (implant worst ear)OR <50% in better ear

Testing outcomes:
In open sentence testing (ie no visual clues of lip reading and no knowledge of what the subject is) of 92 implantees the median score of understanding was 91%. The mean was 80% understanding. Of those who understood the least (the 1st quartile) 75% scored above 68%. (VIC CIC). Remember most of these people had <50% before implantation, so even those who scored poorly were still scoring better than pre-implant.

Regards Felicity

Well said. I’d like to say that this article, I wrote this a few months ago, as I was interviewed by MZ. It’s been a couple of months since I’ve thought about this CI issue. And I’ve been away from the Deaf online community for several months since I’ve started to work and since my plate has gotten more full recently.

Bearing that in mind, the intention of the article was to expose the unspoken dangers of the CI for the benefit of the Deaf community.

I am hoping that hearing parents that comes across MZ’s site would at least be informed and get the information from the horse’s mouth, so to speak…

Although my experiences with my CI were hellish, I am not looking for sympathy. I am looking to improve the quality of hopefully, countless children… That hopefully got rescued when their parents see this article.

I’ll be honest- I am pro ASL, pro Deaf family, pro Deaf culture, pro Deaf community. And I’m against anything else that are against my values.

I have some strong opinions, and some of the people here have strong opinions too. With a subject like this, it can easily cause an argument and/or a serious controversy.

I encourage people to continue to speak their mind- whether if they are “militant” (This goes for both sides) or if they’re just a bystander watching this whole thing unfold.

I apologize if I have offended anyone here with my plain language and to some, my “extremity” , and maybe my uncouth and vulgar method of expressing myself.

And lastly, I realize I have posted quite several posts prior to this one. I’m catching up to all the responses.

Thank you for taking the time to write here, I imagine that MZ appreciates that a lot, and a good discussion is always healthy.

I would also like to thank those that have offered compliments & comments. I wish I could respond to all of them, but if I did, MZ’s server probably would crash. ;o)

I may come back and respond to any responses. (I will try my best with my cramped schedule) Best wishes to you all.

Sincerely,
Erick Ketcham

Quoting you:
One more thought – Let’s say that my girls wanted to learn ASL now. As with any foreign language, it’s not enough simply to learn it in a class. You have to practice in order to truly learn it.
UNQUOTE.

Thank you so much for making that statement. Do you sign ASL at home? Pure ASL? With no errors and no PSE or SEE in it? I very seriously doubt that you sign in pure ASL that is grammatically correct. (Based on your view of things)

How many parents do you think… Actually takes the responsibility to learn ASL? How many parents spend as much time on ASL as they do on English? How many parents sign in pure ASL, with no errors, slowness, perfect reception skills, and with their mouths shut? (ASL is not ASL if you are talking and signing at the same time)

I can assure you that, there is not that many parents that does that. So, how can one say that a child is not doing well because of ASL itself? No.

It is simply a result of the fact that the parents put the responsibility of communication on the child… By forcing them to speak/gesturize/write on paper… In order to communicate.

My mother was a PSE interpreter, and she signs in PSE pretty well. Reception skills in PSE is fantastic. But hello… It’s not my language. My mother was very much involved with my school, camp, and whatanot…

Yet, she is NOT an ASL signer.

I have many hearing family members in my family that signs, in SEE.

They are NOT ASL signers.

So, how can statistic takers actually prove that ASL is harming Deaf people? How can they actually prove that ASL is a bad thing? They can’t.

However, there is a twist in all this- research shows clearly that the majority of Deaf children from an ASL signing Deaf family actually has a better and clearer voice than those that were raised by hearing parents.

It all comes down to education & exposure to the language. People like MZ and myself are unusual. We simply took the initiative and taught ourselves. So, we cannot be made an example out of.

But, I’ll use my wife as an example. She is 100% Deaf. She doesn’t have a clear voice at all. She signs in ASL and was raised using ASL. Yet, she has a Bachelor’s Degree in English. Yet, she was at one time, the head of YLC. Yet, at one time, she was high up at NAD. Yet, at one time, she was the accessibility director at Kennedy Theatre. Yet, she taught at Gallaudet at one time.

So, care to explain that? She was simply exposed to ASL to the degree that it was effective. (Like how hearing children are exposed to English)

Back to the point, I do understand what you’re saying. I really do. Your girls simply didn’t have a need for ASL, in your opinion.

At the same time, if you had exposed them to ASL in the first place… And gave them fair chance- this means giving ASL 100% equality to English in your home from birth to adulthood… Things may be different.

Patti- “needs only language” versus “an actual language”- THANK YOU SO MUCH for making that statement. You’re my hero.

That is another pet peeve I have. People tend to say that ASL is beneath a real language. But I’ve got news for those people- ASL is a real language with a full history.

The fact that your girls chose to learn French over ASL is puzzling and counter to the fact that they’re Deaf. Your pride in that is even more puzzling.

I do understand that you are trying to teach them to be “human beings and to accept themselves”. However, how can they truly accept themselves if they are Deaf, yet do not have the skills/language to operate in their own Deaf community? Why are they not mingling with people like themselves?

It’s the values that the parents instilled in their children. In this case, it’s the values that you instilled in your children.

I’m conflicted. I’m a parent, and in that sense, I agree with you 100%. But, as a Deaf person, I am absolutely disgusted.

Very well said. Couldn’t have said it better. It’s always nice to see someone as refined as you to put things nicely & clearly that someone as rough (maybe uncouth) as myself couldn’t. ;o)

At any rate, to those that read her message should take her seriously. She was my professor for one quarter way back, and she has a good head on her shoulders.

She’s absolutely correct about perceptions changing immediately with the speech. I have the same problem. My wife does not speak clearly at all, but I can. I do see the differences in how people treat her and I. They look at her as though she is mentally retarded. But in truth, my wife is as well educated as I am. In fact, she has much more trivia knowledge than I do. And they dare to look at her as beneath me? That upsets me.

This applies to the CI mentality. Certain people think that having a CI makes them smarter. Well, they say the same thing about wearing eyeglasses. Heck, is a blind person smarter when he/she wears sunglasses? Are they smarter when they have a seeing dog?

Unfortunately, 75% of humanity are fools. The other 25% has some sense, but the 75% overwhelms the 25%. What can we do, right?

My apologies again.

Quote:
Some kids’ literacy development have been slowed down by ASL only instruction in the classroom.
Unquote:

A lot of people like to think they know ASL, when they really don’t. I know this for a fact, because I was an ASL professor, and I trained interpreters. A lot of people will vehemently state that they are skilled in ASL… When, in reality, they are signing in PSE, or even SEE. I have seen this in many places.

Hearing people generally are NOT native ASL signers. I have only met TWO hearing people in my whole life that signs like a Deaf person. (And I have met so many people in the Deaf community- Deaf and Hearing alike) That’s just TWO.

So, those statistics are very much likely based on HEARING PEOPLE THAT THINKS THEY KNOW ASL… INSTRUCTING DEAF PEOPLE IN THEIR HACKED UP VERSION OF ASL… And the result is the Deaf student is saying “what the heck are you saying?”

I have seen pure Deaf teachers teach Deaf children, in pure ASL- and these kids have better written English than those that weren’t instructed by a Deaf ASL teacher.

Another factor that hinders Deaf people- parents that do not take the time to learn their children’s language. Parents like to force their child to “speak” the language they speak. And many parents do not sign at all. And they wonder why the kid isn’t doing well? (Somebody needs to bang their head really hard on a tree, here.)

If you can name one CEO of a Deaf company… That has a CI, then I’ll be impressed.

I can easily name 3 successful Deaf CEO’s that are millionaires. And they are ASL signers that don’t wear a CI.

Again, a piece of machinery does not determine one’s success. Only a person with a brain of a goldfish would think that.

I’m not trying to offend. I am just saying it as it is. And I want you to know that I respect your opinions, and I encourage you to continue posting. Please.

Again, by no means am I trying to de-validate your opinions and feelings. I am just trying to educate you, as I have done many times before with other people. Deaf progressivism is an ongoing battle, and I am all for Deaf progressivism. CI’s have no play in Deaf progressivism… It’s a medical thing, nothing more.

I apologize again if it seems that I am picking on you. I am responding as I go, since I actually haven’t seen this post until just an hour ago. (I have a very busy lifestyle)

Anyway, just for your information, the idea behind Deafhood is that everybody unites together… Including oralists and CI implant users… It has nothing to do with being ASL-Deaf.

Deafhood is a British idea, a solution to the problem in England. It has nothing to do with what is going on in the US. Deaf people for some reason jumped on the bandwagon, not fully realizing it also means accepting those that are really members of the hearing community, although technically Deaf.

So, in other words, Deafhood groups is actually good for your son. Basically, it is clear that you do not really understand what is going on. Because, I mean, come on. Deafhood is an “accept all” philosophy. And you’re talking about going against that?

It is very clear that you have not truly taken the time to explore them. It is clear that you have made a snap decisions based on little evidence… And very much likely based on hearsay.

You’re not allowing your son explore all facets of the Deaf community. You are not allowing your son make the decisions for himself. You are suppressing your son as a Deaf person.

And quite honestly, that is very… Disgusting. My mother did that to me, and I don’t like her for that. Therefore, I don’t like you.

I apologize. But, that is just one of my pet peeves… People that put down the Deaf community based on nothing.

This doctor at the time was very active in improving the CI for the CI corporation. While being a medical doctor, he was also a researcher for the CI corporation.

I was among the first few to have the cut behind the ear, rather than the big cut on the side of the skull. That was a relatively new thing back in 1997.

He offered to give me a second CI, yes- bilateral- so that he could study the results. He admitted to me that all the other people that he had implanted was not educated enough to describe the sounds to the doctor.

That was not a surprise to me because a lot of orally educated people are not as well educated as ASL Deaf people due to spending too much time on their voice rather than the subject matter in the classroom.

Anyway, he wanted to make comparisons between having one CI versus having two. He wanted to compare an orally educated implant patient versus an ASL educated implant patient- is it any different for each party? Does one learn faster than the other? Does one understand the sounds better than the other? What does the sounds I hear sound like exactly? How do I interpret sounds? How do I perceive sounds?

These were some of the questions the doctor wanted to know.