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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Fixing&#8221; the Deaf&#8211;or Destroying the Deaf Community?</title>
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		<title>By: Joseph Pietro Riolo</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5278</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Pietro Riolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5278</guid>
		<description>I just want to drop a bit of statistics here.  I was reading the January 20, 2008 issue of Gold edition of DeafDigest (available at http://www.deafdigest.com/Gold/index.html) and saw the statistics in Sweden.  I remembered your mention of 40% and thought that the statistics in Sweden should be mentioned here, just to give an idea of how prevalent the cochlear implant is among the deaf babies.

Here is what it said:

     - 90-95 percent of deaf babies get CI
     - 50 percent of these implanted babies learn sign language

Keep in mind that this is for Sweden only.  Sweden, for those who are not aware, is really a small country.  In respect to area, it is between California and Texas.  In respect to population, it is between Georgia and North Carolina.

Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to drop a bit of statistics here.  I was reading the January 20, 2008 issue of Gold edition of DeafDigest (available at <a href="http://www.deafdigest.com/Gold/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.deafdigest.com/Gold/index.html</a>) and saw the statistics in Sweden.  I remembered your mention of 40% and thought that the statistics in Sweden should be mentioned here, just to give an idea of how prevalent the cochlear implant is among the deaf babies.</p>
<p>Here is what it said:</p>
<p>     &#8211; 90-95 percent of deaf babies get CI<br />
     &#8211; 50 percent of these implanted babies learn sign language</p>
<p>Keep in mind that this is for Sweden only.  Sweden, for those who are not aware, is really a small country.  In respect to area, it is between California and Texas.  In respect to population, it is between Georgia and North Carolina.</p>
<p>Joseph Pietro Riolo<br />
<a href="mailto:josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com">josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5277</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also, during my mainstreaming years, they acted like all we needed to do was lipread.
This is impossible, even for the better lipreaders (I know because I was one of them.)

Two proofs of this:  First, lipreading is made easier if the person is speaking to and knows they&#039;re speaking to a Deaf person.  A hearing teacher in a hearing enviornment isn&#039;t doing that.
Second, if the teachers is writing on the blackboard, it&#039;s impossible to see his/her lips and if he/she is reading....forget trying to because they always read fast</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, during my mainstreaming years, they acted like all we needed to do was lipread.<br />
This is impossible, even for the better lipreaders (I know because I was one of them.)</p>
<p>Two proofs of this:  First, lipreading is made easier if the person is speaking to and knows they&#8217;re speaking to a Deaf person.  A hearing teacher in a hearing enviornment isn&#8217;t doing that.<br />
Second, if the teachers is writing on the blackboard, it&#8217;s impossible to see his/her lips and if he/she is reading&#8230;.forget trying to because they always read fast</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5276</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5276</guid>
		<description>Having been totally Deaf for nearly 37 of my 47 years, I&#039;ve experienced a lot more than the run-of-the-mill late deafened adult.
My history goes all the way back to fifth grade, when my parents decided that, since I&#039;d been a straight A student, in fourth grade, they would leave me in public school, even though I&#039;d lost my hearing.
The result of that decision was disastrous, so I began sixth grade at the Georgia School for the Deaf, where I soon learned not only that English is not the Deaf language but also that I was learning ASL as a second language.

By the time I&#039;d completed two years, at GSD, I was moved back to mainstream, mainly because my parents had decided I&#039;d outgrown the need for a residential school - how they came to that conclusion is beyond me though.
Well, after I graduated, from public school, I was no more ready for college than I&#039;d been after completing seventh grade at GSD.
What I&#039;m saying is taht ASL is the Deaf language and my having been hearing, first, didn&#039;t change that.  Mainstreaming destroyed what could have been a career as an educator because it scared me from continuing school.
Hearing teachers have, since, told me I should never have been mainstreamed but the past is over.  I hope it doesn&#039;t happen to another late deafened kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been totally Deaf for nearly 37 of my 47 years, I&#8217;ve experienced a lot more than the run-of-the-mill late deafened adult.<br />
My history goes all the way back to fifth grade, when my parents decided that, since I&#8217;d been a straight A student, in fourth grade, they would leave me in public school, even though I&#8217;d lost my hearing.<br />
The result of that decision was disastrous, so I began sixth grade at the Georgia School for the Deaf, where I soon learned not only that English is not the Deaf language but also that I was learning ASL as a second language.</p>
<p>By the time I&#8217;d completed two years, at GSD, I was moved back to mainstream, mainly because my parents had decided I&#8217;d outgrown the need for a residential school &#8211; how they came to that conclusion is beyond me though.<br />
Well, after I graduated, from public school, I was no more ready for college than I&#8217;d been after completing seventh grade at GSD.<br />
What I&#8217;m saying is taht ASL is the Deaf language and my having been hearing, first, didn&#8217;t change that.  Mainstreaming destroyed what could have been a career as an educator because it scared me from continuing school.<br />
Hearing teachers have, since, told me I should never have been mainstreamed but the past is over.  I hope it doesn&#8217;t happen to another late deafened kid.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Mayes</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5275</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Mayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5275</guid>
		<description>Susanna... keep visiting us, since we have a lot to learn from you.  We do need to separate facts from myths, make peace with the past, and move on... FOR children&#039;s sake... ASL or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susanna&#8230; keep visiting us, since we have a lot to learn from you.  We do need to separate facts from myths, make peace with the past, and move on&#8230; FOR children&#8217;s sake&#8230; ASL or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Susanna</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5229</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5229</guid>
		<description>Oh, they&#039;re out there (a critical mass of them).  I am on a discussion group with over 1400 of them.  Not only does all the information get discussed, but the book &quot;Choices in Communication&quot; comes up frequently when new parents want to see their options.  It really does get discussed... there are a variety of parental choices.  You don&#039;t see and hear it on deafread, of course. :-)  When parents get involved with birth to three programs, it is not uncommon for ASL to be stressed rather than oral methodologies, actually.  I was given lots of info on all methods in the state we were in, and there was probably a lack of oral information, because I had to go looking for it.  No matter what methodology is discussed on my email discussion group, there are dozens who have input on it.  Really.

One person commented that AG Bell had done a great disservice while telling a story about a child whose parents didn&#039;t get them hearing aids.  What?!  That has nothing whatsoever to do with A G Bell.  Not only would that organization not said that a pretty little girl should not have hearing aids, but they would have supported whatever means one had available at the time to access sound.  I can not believe the multitude of comments attributed to the organization or the man which have absolutely nothing to do with them.  Did you know about Dr. Bell&#039;s glove, or his signing to communicate with various young children?  Do you know about the fact that he disliked institutions or residential schools and thought that children had a right to be included in their families?  How&#039;s that for cruelty?  Don&#039;t blame all hardships on Dr. Bell or the Association which bears his name.  It was not involved in the residential programs of the 20th century.  It was not involved in SEE, it was not involved in SEE2, or TC, or simcom.  One thing for sure is that whoever told the parents to not get hearing aids because it was a &quot;pretty little girl&quot; was not involved with the A. G. Bell Association, and probably had very little understanding of any of the methodologies or recommendations surrounding them.

W</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, they&#8217;re out there (a critical mass of them).  I am on a discussion group with over 1400 of them.  Not only does all the information get discussed, but the book &#8220;Choices in Communication&#8221; comes up frequently when new parents want to see their options.  It really does get discussed&#8230; there are a variety of parental choices.  You don&#8217;t see and hear it on deafread, of course. <img src='http://www.mishkazena.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   When parents get involved with birth to three programs, it is not uncommon for ASL to be stressed rather than oral methodologies, actually.  I was given lots of info on all methods in the state we were in, and there was probably a lack of oral information, because I had to go looking for it.  No matter what methodology is discussed on my email discussion group, there are dozens who have input on it.  Really.</p>
<p>One person commented that AG Bell had done a great disservice while telling a story about a child whose parents didn&#8217;t get them hearing aids.  What?!  That has nothing whatsoever to do with A G Bell.  Not only would that organization not said that a pretty little girl should not have hearing aids, but they would have supported whatever means one had available at the time to access sound.  I can not believe the multitude of comments attributed to the organization or the man which have absolutely nothing to do with them.  Did you know about Dr. Bell&#8217;s glove, or his signing to communicate with various young children?  Do you know about the fact that he disliked institutions or residential schools and thought that children had a right to be included in their families?  How&#8217;s that for cruelty?  Don&#8217;t blame all hardships on Dr. Bell or the Association which bears his name.  It was not involved in the residential programs of the 20th century.  It was not involved in SEE, it was not involved in SEE2, or TC, or simcom.  One thing for sure is that whoever told the parents to not get hearing aids because it was a &#8220;pretty little girl&#8221; was not involved with the A. G. Bell Association, and probably had very little understanding of any of the methodologies or recommendations surrounding them.</p>
<p>W</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5230</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5230</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s two different perceptions here, and both sides are saying each side are wrong, when in fact, both sides are right AND wrong.

The Deaf Community has and continues to see a lot of CI failures. We do not see the CI successes, because they don&#039;t have to nor want to do anything with the community. But the successful CI&#039;ers are out there, and in far more numbers than we in the community would like to admit.

On the other side, the hearing parents see the CI successes because they&#039;re then able to assimilate into the larger culture, but not the failures, because then they&#039;re carted off to the Deaf Community and hidden from view thereon.

I&#039;m glad that the CI has worked wonderfully for your children, but I have yet to see a critical mass of parents explicitly say, &#039;Those are the options. This worked for my child. I can tell you in detail about what worked for my child, and here are names of people who know more about the other options. You should get all of the information possible, so you can make the best decision for your child.&#039;

But the sentiment I&#039;m getting here is, that&#039;s too much to ask for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s two different perceptions here, and both sides are saying each side are wrong, when in fact, both sides are right AND wrong.</p>
<p>The Deaf Community has and continues to see a lot of CI failures. We do not see the CI successes, because they don&#8217;t have to nor want to do anything with the community. But the successful CI&#8217;ers are out there, and in far more numbers than we in the community would like to admit.</p>
<p>On the other side, the hearing parents see the CI successes because they&#8217;re then able to assimilate into the larger culture, but not the failures, because then they&#8217;re carted off to the Deaf Community and hidden from view thereon.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that the CI has worked wonderfully for your children, but I have yet to see a critical mass of parents explicitly say, &#8216;Those are the options. This worked for my child. I can tell you in detail about what worked for my child, and here are names of people who know more about the other options. You should get all of the information possible, so you can make the best decision for your child.&#8217;</p>
<p>But the sentiment I&#8217;m getting here is, that&#8217;s too much to ask for.</p>
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		<title>By: Susanna</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5231</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5231</guid>
		<description>John, I understand some of where you are coming from because for our family, for our kids to be deaf in a family which already had entirely hearing people, it was a disability.  In addition, it sure feels like a disability to think of your kids having difficulty communicating at businesses, stores, schools and more.

This is one of the reasons we chose to implant.  Contrary to what is often stated, cochlear implants are nearly always successful IF appropriate therapy is undertaken, if it&#039;s gotten young enough, and if people trust it to work.  If a kids only wears it a few hours a day or only while at school (true stories from some deaf schools nearby) then of course it won&#039;t work.  If the child already has another disability, then the results will be different than for a child with otherwise ordinary cognition, etc.  It is extremely rare for cochlear implants to just &quot;not work&quot; for no reason.  This is one area which I think has not been fully understood by deaf adults.  We are not risking life and limb doing this surgery; no one has died as a result of the surgery.  It is also clear very quickly if the device is functioning-- usually within 3-4 months if not sooner.  Once it is functioning, tweaking the map will allow for better and better hearing, so that most children implanted before preschool age will function very similarly to a hearing individual when out in the mainstream (not just educationally, but everywhere).

Deaf pundit, I have been getting the word out for nearly a decade now, and thankfully have seen lots of positive benefit for kids with CIs.  I work in that area because that is what I know.  Of course we know that not every single deaf child will likely benefit from a CI, but the reality is that the vast majority could.  I will not shy away from that even while I do allow for and respect those using ASL (of all ages).  Mine is a &quot;live and let live&quot; philosophy, while at the same time educating parents who come wanting to know how it is that our kids do what they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I understand some of where you are coming from because for our family, for our kids to be deaf in a family which already had entirely hearing people, it was a disability.  In addition, it sure feels like a disability to think of your kids having difficulty communicating at businesses, stores, schools and more.</p>
<p>This is one of the reasons we chose to implant.  Contrary to what is often stated, cochlear implants are nearly always successful IF appropriate therapy is undertaken, if it&#8217;s gotten young enough, and if people trust it to work.  If a kids only wears it a few hours a day or only while at school (true stories from some deaf schools nearby) then of course it won&#8217;t work.  If the child already has another disability, then the results will be different than for a child with otherwise ordinary cognition, etc.  It is extremely rare for cochlear implants to just &#8220;not work&#8221; for no reason.  This is one area which I think has not been fully understood by deaf adults.  We are not risking life and limb doing this surgery; no one has died as a result of the surgery.  It is also clear very quickly if the device is functioning&#8211; usually within 3-4 months if not sooner.  Once it is functioning, tweaking the map will allow for better and better hearing, so that most children implanted before preschool age will function very similarly to a hearing individual when out in the mainstream (not just educationally, but everywhere).</p>
<p>Deaf pundit, I have been getting the word out for nearly a decade now, and thankfully have seen lots of positive benefit for kids with CIs.  I work in that area because that is what I know.  Of course we know that not every single deaf child will likely benefit from a CI, but the reality is that the vast majority could.  I will not shy away from that even while I do allow for and respect those using ASL (of all ages).  Mine is a &#8220;live and let live&#8221; philosophy, while at the same time educating parents who come wanting to know how it is that our kids do what they do.</p>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5232</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5232</guid>
		<description>Mishka,

I am deaf and I feel I do have a disability. Call me what ever you wish but please speak for yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mishka,</p>
<p>I am deaf and I feel I do have a disability. Call me what ever you wish but please speak for yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5233</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5233</guid>
		<description>Susanna, absolutely. You and other parents are not responsible for our grief and pain, and the only thing we can truly do is move forward.

But you can help us move forward by doing what you are doing, and also correct people&#039;s misconceptions that what works for your child, does not mean it will work for ALL other children. That does need to be said, over and over.

That, personally for me, is making amends. Helping to make sure what happened in the past, will not happen again.

None of us want to see the cycle of anger, emotional and mental instability, our rights being violated, &#039;one size fits all&#039; mentality and the CI/oral and ASL war continue. It&#039;s gone on long enough.

You and other parents, whether you like it or not, are part of this cycle, because your children are deaf. I&#039;m asking you to please help break this vicious cycle by getting the word out there that one size does not fit all, and ASL is something that should be respected, just like CIs are.

MishkaZena and I and others are trying our best to break this cycle, by presenting information from ALL sides, but we cannot do this alone. It only takes a few minutes of your time - such in random conversations and such. Jodi&#039;s already doing her part by blogging, for instance. It doesn&#039;t take very much on your and other parents&#039; part, but believe me, it will go a LONG way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susanna, absolutely. You and other parents are not responsible for our grief and pain, and the only thing we can truly do is move forward.</p>
<p>But you can help us move forward by doing what you are doing, and also correct people&#8217;s misconceptions that what works for your child, does not mean it will work for ALL other children. That does need to be said, over and over.</p>
<p>That, personally for me, is making amends. Helping to make sure what happened in the past, will not happen again.</p>
<p>None of us want to see the cycle of anger, emotional and mental instability, our rights being violated, &#8216;one size fits all&#8217; mentality and the CI/oral and ASL war continue. It&#8217;s gone on long enough.</p>
<p>You and other parents, whether you like it or not, are part of this cycle, because your children are deaf. I&#8217;m asking you to please help break this vicious cycle by getting the word out there that one size does not fit all, and ASL is something that should be respected, just like CIs are.</p>
<p>MishkaZena and I and others are trying our best to break this cycle, by presenting information from ALL sides, but we cannot do this alone. It only takes a few minutes of your time &#8211; such in random conversations and such. Jodi&#8217;s already doing her part by blogging, for instance. It doesn&#8217;t take very much on your and other parents&#8217; part, but believe me, it will go a LONG way.</p>
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		<title>By: Mishka Zena</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/comment-page-1/#comment-5234</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishka Zena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/15/fixing-the-deaf-or-destroying-the-deaf-community/#comment-5234</guid>
		<description>Wow.. a lot of comments here

Kim, please feel free to contact me about learning ASL. It&#039;s a wonderful language and I&#039;m so glad when I learned it at college

Jodi, &#039;fixing&#039; is not my word, but how many deaf people felt when they were growing up.. They were perceived to be defective and drs trying to repair them... Many deaf adults are happy with what they are and don&#039;t want to be &#039;fixed&#039; at all. Of all disability groups, some of the deaf and little people don&#039;t consider themselves disabled. They don&#039;t feel handicapped. I know parents only want the best for their kids :)

Susanna, usually deaf people seek out Deaf Community as they feel the need to be with people they can identify with, whether it is the language, or a feeling of kindred.

What seems to be &#039;a desperate grab for kids&#039; is actually education for oral educators, doctors, audiologists and hearing parents because for some kids c.i. isn&#039;t enough to provide language acquisition. We are still seeing many c.i. kids going to deaf schools with minimal language skills. Hence their concern and interest in educating the parents as it is hard to predict which kids will be successful with c.i.s and which ones will need a visual language. Your kids are doing exceptionally well and I&#039;m glad for you and them, too. But we know other kids who don&#039;t do well, for a variety of reasons. Parents need to hear about these cases, too, so they can better meet their kids&#039; needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.. a lot of comments here</p>
<p>Kim, please feel free to contact me about learning ASL. It&#8217;s a wonderful language and I&#8217;m so glad when I learned it at college</p>
<p>Jodi, &#8216;fixing&#8217; is not my word, but how many deaf people felt when they were growing up.. They were perceived to be defective and drs trying to repair them&#8230; Many deaf adults are happy with what they are and don&#8217;t want to be &#8216;fixed&#8217; at all. Of all disability groups, some of the deaf and little people don&#8217;t consider themselves disabled. They don&#8217;t feel handicapped. I know parents only want the best for their kids <img src='http://www.mishkazena.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Susanna, usually deaf people seek out Deaf Community as they feel the need to be with people they can identify with, whether it is the language, or a feeling of kindred.</p>
<p>What seems to be &#8216;a desperate grab for kids&#8217; is actually education for oral educators, doctors, audiologists and hearing parents because for some kids c.i. isn&#8217;t enough to provide language acquisition. We are still seeing many c.i. kids going to deaf schools with minimal language skills. Hence their concern and interest in educating the parents as it is hard to predict which kids will be successful with c.i.s and which ones will need a visual language. Your kids are doing exceptionally well and I&#8217;m glad for you and them, too. But we know other kids who don&#8217;t do well, for a variety of reasons. Parents need to hear about these cases, too, so they can better meet their kids&#8217; needs.</p>
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