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	<title>Comments on: A Mom of CI Children:They&#8217;re Not Listening To Us.</title>
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		<title>By: Susanna</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5116</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5116</guid>
		<description>Another mum,  I agree with you.  I have not gotten the feeling from any of my discussions with parents that the deaf child today, regardless of methodology, is having to swim upstream in the manner of ones in the mid-20th century.  I hope that we&#039;re right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another mum,  I agree with you.  I have not gotten the feeling from any of my discussions with parents that the deaf child today, regardless of methodology, is having to swim upstream in the manner of ones in the mid-20th century.  I hope that we&#8217;re right.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Mum</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5117</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Mum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 01:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5117</guid>
		<description>I have to applaud many of the people posting here as I have never seen such a constructive thread on this particular subject! I am the parent of a now 15 year old. He is going to post here later today to talk about his experiences.

The one thing I wanted to tap into was the notion of what is a successful child? The reality is that in the very early days (pre CIs) I suspect that some educators did push speech and language and that in of itself determined success. The notion of development of self, of a feeling of belonging, of having social skills, friendships in the mainstream were perhaps to them less important than speech and language. I can tell you that our experience has certainly not been that!!!  A large part of determining his success has been the measurement of what I call &quot;true inclusion&quot;...that is not inclusion in the sense that I suspect some readers here experienced in that students were stuck in a classroom and taught with the other kids, and that was it, that was meant to be inclusion! I mean true inclusion where the students are fully involved, valued members of their class groups, their school communities. That they have friendship groups and all that goes with that.

Maybe some of the readers here feel like the educators and professionals working with deaf children haven&#039;t learned from past mistakes but I truly believe that they have. I think the advent of CI technology has made it so much easier for our kids to hear and learn to speak BUT I also believe that an acknowledgement by all that this is not in itself a meaure of success has also changed things. The notion that we must look at the &quot;whole child&quot; not just a measure of their speech and language is very much a part of the professional/education setting for those that provide support to our kids. It is this combination that is changing the face of things today, and the well rounded individuals we are now seeing as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to applaud many of the people posting here as I have never seen such a constructive thread on this particular subject! I am the parent of a now 15 year old. He is going to post here later today to talk about his experiences.</p>
<p>The one thing I wanted to tap into was the notion of what is a successful child? The reality is that in the very early days (pre CIs) I suspect that some educators did push speech and language and that in of itself determined success. The notion of development of self, of a feeling of belonging, of having social skills, friendships in the mainstream were perhaps to them less important than speech and language. I can tell you that our experience has certainly not been that!!!  A large part of determining his success has been the measurement of what I call &#8220;true inclusion&#8221;&#8230;that is not inclusion in the sense that I suspect some readers here experienced in that students were stuck in a classroom and taught with the other kids, and that was it, that was meant to be inclusion! I mean true inclusion where the students are fully involved, valued members of their class groups, their school communities. That they have friendship groups and all that goes with that.</p>
<p>Maybe some of the readers here feel like the educators and professionals working with deaf children haven&#8217;t learned from past mistakes but I truly believe that they have. I think the advent of CI technology has made it so much easier for our kids to hear and learn to speak BUT I also believe that an acknowledgement by all that this is not in itself a meaure of success has also changed things. The notion that we must look at the &#8220;whole child&#8221; not just a measure of their speech and language is very much a part of the professional/education setting for those that provide support to our kids. It is this combination that is changing the face of things today, and the well rounded individuals we are now seeing as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: patti durr</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5118</link>
		<dc:creator>patti durr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5118</guid>
		<description>re: 56 - well put

unconditional love - really parents are the key source of this and the foundation of a &quot;good&quot; human being

best wishes with Ellis - definitely off to a good start

peace

p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: 56 &#8211; well put</p>
<p>unconditional love &#8211; really parents are the key source of this and the foundation of a &#8220;good&#8221; human being</p>
<p>best wishes with Ellis &#8211; definitely off to a good start</p>
<p>peace</p>
<p>p</p>
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		<title>By: Jeannette</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5119</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeannette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5119</guid>
		<description>We got our 2yo a CI this summer. Hands down the hardest decision we&#039;ve ever made. Our stance towards his education is staunchly bilingual. We have received from flack about the CI from the Deaf community, but whatever, I understand the background. We have also received a lot ignorance for the hearing the hearing community. (we&#039;re hearing parents). I did want to share something my husband wrote on my blog last summer. I think it gets at the heart of a lot of what has been said so far in the comments, including the relative definition of &quot;success&quot;.

Hubby:
&quot;Thank goodness that Ellis doesn&#039;t have to be ruined by [our mistakes], though. For all the talk here about identity, sense of self, etc., I have to say that our view of Ellis&#039;s personhood is limited neither by his deafness nor, should he have been born otherwise, his hearing. I hope that Ellis is a full enough person that whether he hears or not, whether he thinks of himself as Deaf or not, he finds a way to live an honest and honorable life in whatever circumstances he finds himself.

There is no way to save him from suffering. There is no way to avoid limiting his choices in some fashion, try though we might. In the end, whether hearing, deaf, blind, paralytic, male, female or neuter., we all have the same basic choices to make about how we will live with respect to our limitations. The choices that Ellis makes in this respect will determine the quality of person he is, and whether or not he merits our respect (he will always have our love). &quot;

I think he puts it all in a very healthy perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got our 2yo a CI this summer. Hands down the hardest decision we&#8217;ve ever made. Our stance towards his education is staunchly bilingual. We have received from flack about the CI from the Deaf community, but whatever, I understand the background. We have also received a lot ignorance for the hearing the hearing community. (we&#8217;re hearing parents). I did want to share something my husband wrote on my blog last summer. I think it gets at the heart of a lot of what has been said so far in the comments, including the relative definition of &#8220;success&#8221;.</p>
<p>Hubby:<br />
&#8220;Thank goodness that Ellis doesn&#8217;t have to be ruined by [our mistakes], though. For all the talk here about identity, sense of self, etc., I have to say that our view of Ellis&#8217;s personhood is limited neither by his deafness nor, should he have been born otherwise, his hearing. I hope that Ellis is a full enough person that whether he hears or not, whether he thinks of himself as Deaf or not, he finds a way to live an honest and honorable life in whatever circumstances he finds himself.</p>
<p>There is no way to save him from suffering. There is no way to avoid limiting his choices in some fashion, try though we might. In the end, whether hearing, deaf, blind, paralytic, male, female or neuter., we all have the same basic choices to make about how we will live with respect to our limitations. The choices that Ellis makes in this respect will determine the quality of person he is, and whether or not he merits our respect (he will always have our love). &#8221;</p>
<p>I think he puts it all in a very healthy perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5120</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5120</guid>
		<description>To A Deaf Pundit -
I felt really sad when you said that &quot;there&#039;s not adequate mental health counselors who speak ASL.&quot;  Everyone needs access to people like this to process their pain - whatever the issue and in whatever language.

Speaking for myself, I am very sorry for the pain that you and others have experienced in your contact with the hearing world.  We have been, at times rude, dismissive and thoughtless in the way we have treated you.  I know that in the past I have contributed to the pain by being afraid of looking stupid or something and not choosing to work at communicating.  I am not real comfortable with initiating conversation with anyone I don&#039;t know or pursuing it when I don&#039;t know what to say.  In avoiding conversation I am sure that I was at the least thoughtless and probably downright rude.  It was not my intention to be rude but I realize that they could not know my intention.  I am very sorry.

I&#039;m also hoping that by being a good listener to people I come across is a step in the right direction.  &quot;Listening&quot; to me means that I can accurately reflect what the other person is saying so that they know I understood what they said.  It means that I do not minimize whatever they said.  Part of the problem in this kind of internet dialog seems to be that we are so quick with our responses about our thoughts/experiences that we don&#039;t take the time to try to understand what was actually said.  It seems to add to the pain or confusion.  I know I have been guilty of this at times.

Hoping for constructive dialog.
Cheryl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To A Deaf Pundit -<br />
I felt really sad when you said that &#8220;there&#8217;s not adequate mental health counselors who speak ASL.&#8221;  Everyone needs access to people like this to process their pain &#8211; whatever the issue and in whatever language.</p>
<p>Speaking for myself, I am very sorry for the pain that you and others have experienced in your contact with the hearing world.  We have been, at times rude, dismissive and thoughtless in the way we have treated you.  I know that in the past I have contributed to the pain by being afraid of looking stupid or something and not choosing to work at communicating.  I am not real comfortable with initiating conversation with anyone I don&#8217;t know or pursuing it when I don&#8217;t know what to say.  In avoiding conversation I am sure that I was at the least thoughtless and probably downright rude.  It was not my intention to be rude but I realize that they could not know my intention.  I am very sorry.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also hoping that by being a good listener to people I come across is a step in the right direction.  &#8220;Listening&#8221; to me means that I can accurately reflect what the other person is saying so that they know I understood what they said.  It means that I do not minimize whatever they said.  Part of the problem in this kind of internet dialog seems to be that we are so quick with our responses about our thoughts/experiences that we don&#8217;t take the time to try to understand what was actually said.  It seems to add to the pain or confusion.  I know I have been guilty of this at times.</p>
<p>Hoping for constructive dialog.<br />
Cheryl</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5115</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5115</guid>
		<description>Cheryl (#46), I am glad you posted that comment, and I hope more people recognize that and take that approach.

You&#039;re absolutely on target with what you said. And that&#039;s why I think it&#039;s sad that there&#039;s not adequate mental health counselors who speak ASL. What has happened in the past has left a huge, immeasurable scar on the Deaf Community, and that does need to be recognized by the hearing world.

Thank you again, Cheryl.

~ A Deaf Pundit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheryl (#46), I am glad you posted that comment, and I hope more people recognize that and take that approach.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely on target with what you said. And that&#8217;s why I think it&#8217;s sad that there&#8217;s not adequate mental health counselors who speak ASL. What has happened in the past has left a huge, immeasurable scar on the Deaf Community, and that does need to be recognized by the hearing world.</p>
<p>Thank you again, Cheryl.</p>
<p>~ A Deaf Pundit</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5121</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5121</guid>
		<description>MZ, thank you for posting this blog with a reasonable viewpoint of CI in young children.
Have you interviewed any Deaf parents with CI children who are bilingual in ASL and spoken English? I am one of very few Deaf parents who gave CI to our very young deaf children. My daughter has been progressing very well with CI since she has received CI at 1 1/2 yrs old. She uses both ASL and spoken English. Her therapists including AVT believe that she could catch up with the spoken language at around age 3. It would never have happened with hearing aids and she rarely benefited from the aids and kept taking them off before she received CI. Now she wears the CI all the time and doesn&#039;t even want to take it off at bedtime. She even enjoys AVT probably because she has access to all the sounds with the CI. I would consider her successful whether she could speak or sign because she is developing appropriately in the all the aspects of children’s normal developments. I wanted her to have the best of both worlds - hearing and Deaf since we come from large hearing families. It s probably a little more challenging for me and my husband as Deaf parents (ASL users) than hearing parents to give our deaf children CI and commit to their intensive training. The number of Deaf parents with CI children seem to grow gradually although most Deaf parents don’t give CI to their deaf children. I look forward to your research and feel free to contact me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MZ, thank you for posting this blog with a reasonable viewpoint of CI in young children.<br />
Have you interviewed any Deaf parents with CI children who are bilingual in ASL and spoken English? I am one of very few Deaf parents who gave CI to our very young deaf children. My daughter has been progressing very well with CI since she has received CI at 1 1/2 yrs old. She uses both ASL and spoken English. Her therapists including AVT believe that she could catch up with the spoken language at around age 3. It would never have happened with hearing aids and she rarely benefited from the aids and kept taking them off before she received CI. Now she wears the CI all the time and doesn&#8217;t even want to take it off at bedtime. She even enjoys AVT probably because she has access to all the sounds with the CI. I would consider her successful whether she could speak or sign because she is developing appropriately in the all the aspects of children’s normal developments. I wanted her to have the best of both worlds &#8211; hearing and Deaf since we come from large hearing families. It s probably a little more challenging for me and my husband as Deaf parents (ASL users) than hearing parents to give our deaf children CI and commit to their intensive training. The number of Deaf parents with CI children seem to grow gradually although most Deaf parents don’t give CI to their deaf children. I look forward to your research and feel free to contact me.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbie</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5122</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5122</guid>
		<description>I am very interested in how this survey turns out.  I&#039;m a recent recipient of a CI but before that I have been deaf since I was four and mainstreamed orally with no sign.  I was born in the 1980s and my school systems had no idea how to deal with me.  In the meantime my parents were trying to teach me how to sign.  When the school finally got a clue, they started me with a speech therapist and refused to teach me how to sign and my parents pressed them for the importance of being able to have a back up language.  I chose speaking and I refused to learn how to sign.  Why do you ask? It was different from all the other hearing kids.  I just wanted to fit in and talk/hear like them.  A deaf child really goes through a major identity crisis in those years of puberty.

I am now in my late twenties and when I lost my hearing last year leaving me with not so much as the slightest audio cue with my super powered fancy schmancy digital hearing aid, it left me in a really hard position.  I always thought I was a great lip reader being able to read lips from 20 feet away but when you can&#039;t hear a single thing, it is extremely hard.  It isn&#039;t so much as yours eyes straining, it the exhaustion of trying to pair a sound with the movement.  This is where knowing sign language would have come in handy that is if both my elementary and high school had the means.

The simple act of something asking me if I want water would have been so much simpler if I knew both ways of communication.  Even if I did know sign language, who would I sign to?  My answer in the past was no one but I could have signed to teach others to sign to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very interested in how this survey turns out.  I&#8217;m a recent recipient of a CI but before that I have been deaf since I was four and mainstreamed orally with no sign.  I was born in the 1980s and my school systems had no idea how to deal with me.  In the meantime my parents were trying to teach me how to sign.  When the school finally got a clue, they started me with a speech therapist and refused to teach me how to sign and my parents pressed them for the importance of being able to have a back up language.  I chose speaking and I refused to learn how to sign.  Why do you ask? It was different from all the other hearing kids.  I just wanted to fit in and talk/hear like them.  A deaf child really goes through a major identity crisis in those years of puberty.</p>
<p>I am now in my late twenties and when I lost my hearing last year leaving me with not so much as the slightest audio cue with my super powered fancy schmancy digital hearing aid, it left me in a really hard position.  I always thought I was a great lip reader being able to read lips from 20 feet away but when you can&#8217;t hear a single thing, it is extremely hard.  It isn&#8217;t so much as yours eyes straining, it the exhaustion of trying to pair a sound with the movement.  This is where knowing sign language would have come in handy that is if both my elementary and high school had the means.</p>
<p>The simple act of something asking me if I want water would have been so much simpler if I knew both ways of communication.  Even if I did know sign language, who would I sign to?  My answer in the past was no one but I could have signed to teach others to sign to me.</p>
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		<title>By: WAD</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-2/#comment-5123</link>
		<dc:creator>WAD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5123</guid>
		<description>(#49 WAD) It is a snapshot.  For people who want to learn more, here is full document-- http://www.deafchildren.org/resources/49_Sign%20Language%20Use.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(#49 WAD) It is a snapshot.  For people who want to learn more, here is full document&#8211; <a href="http://www.deafchildren.org/resources/49_Sign%20Language%20Use.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.deafchildren.org/resources/49_Sign%20Language%20Use.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: jodi</title>
		<link>http://www.mishkazena.com/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/comment-page-1/#comment-5125</link>
		<dc:creator>jodi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/01/11/a-mom-of-ci-childrentheyre-not-listening-to-us/#comment-5125</guid>
		<description>Aidan,
It was Mack Attack?...a question, not a phrase and what I wrote to you on your blog holds true- I hope I clarified that in my last blog. Unfortunately, the fact that I was welcoming dialogue with you and others was unclear to many people...You have very strong views, most people who are passionate about a lived experience do. I feel very passionate about my experience, as well. As I said before, I look forward to sharing views and experiences...Jodi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aidan,<br />
It was Mack Attack?&#8230;a question, not a phrase and what I wrote to you on your blog holds true- I hope I clarified that in my last blog. Unfortunately, the fact that I was welcoming dialogue with you and others was unclear to many people&#8230;You have very strong views, most people who are passionate about a lived experience do. I feel very passionate about my experience, as well. As I said before, I look forward to sharing views and experiences&#8230;Jodi</p>
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